goddamn i just love darkness!! and derailing threads!

[Jackard]

who the hell carries a torch that doesnt light anything?

Despite our first interaction on IRC on the subject, I might suggest that you become less oriented on personal attacks as pertains to the discussion of this. You seem to come in spewing the idea that because the individual(s) with whom you're speaking share a different view with you, that they are universally idiots. This gives no opportunity for open discourse on the subject, and certainly makes those you're speaking with less inclined to respect your position. Also, it takes longer to get around to useful statements like this. This is the first time I've seen you add a constructive comment to a discussion on the subject.

The light provided by torches is, indeed, sub-standard, with no improvement shown in either duration or intensity with improved quality from the observations I've made. This is a change I could definitely see being worthwhile. The addition of oil fueled lanterns and such with even better durations and better intensity (based on the quality of the lamp in question, and the quality of the oil being burned) are improvements I would dearly love to see. Additionally, having animals being less inclined to attack those that are, in fact, carrying a light source at night would also be a useful improvement.

Thank you for providing useful, constructive feedback on the subject.

You want to know why? Because that's nothing new. None of this is. There's been a lull in development and forumers are retreading old ground. Lighting improvements were pointed out like a year ago. Animals fear fire, a year ago. Lanterns, you guessed it. People coming up and rehashing the same arguments that have already been debunked. The devs are the ones that need convincing anyways, not the people that actually enjoy what are objectively poor game mechanics for the sake of immersion. Why take the time to enlighten every one of them?

ps. gameplay trumps realism

[BWithey]

ps. gameplay trumps realism

There is a problem with this tautology, and that is that what improves gameplay, and what does not, is largely subjective on this point. Being unable to see at night and the perils that come with travelling without a torch are things that add to my game-play experience, rather than detract from it.

Also, standard response to situations where things have been discussed before is to provide links to those areas where they have been discussed, and perhaps a little hazing about not properly using the search function. Might I suggest you return to these time-honored and far more constructive ways of rehashing your point on a subject, rather than merely attacking those who are suggesting these things?

As pertains to your comment about the devs needing to be the ones who are convinced, you're quite correct. And that goes for any side or view on this subject. We know they read the forums, it's inactive enough (the critique portion) that it's reasonable to think they might get time to read all or most of the new posts, and I'm sure that they have gleaned more than one idea from the discussions here. Even if that idea was only a view of what their readers/players want.

[Jackard]

Also, standard response to situations where things have been discussed before is to provide links to those areas where they have been discussed, and perhaps a little hazing about not properly using the search function. Might I suggest you return to these time-honored and far more constructive ways of rehashing your point on a subject, rather than merely attacking those who are suggesting these things?

[BWithey]

Also, standard response to situations where things have been discussed before is to provide links to those areas where they have been discussed, and perhaps a little hazing about not properly using the search function. Might I suggest you return to these time-honored and far more constructive ways of rehashing your point on a subject, rather than merely attacking those who are suggesting these things?

I'm afraid I must admit I'm not quite getting what you're saying here. Are you saying that it's effort, and therefor you're not interested in doing it?

[Danno]

Why are you people so eager to punish yourself? When there were no lighthacks I just turned up the Gamma values, which was also horrible, but better than wandering around in darkness or wasting equipment slots with light sources. As it is implemented now night just sucks, despite your need to feel some kind of realism.

I am also curious how the discussion about altvaulting has turned into one about night and day?

because beady-eyed dwarves love to live in miserable squalor

ps. games where illumination is not a pain in the ass ie. Diablo have a considerable light radius, so you can you know actually play the fucking game. light sources in H&H have small radius and dont even give off much light - you need three of them to achieve normal brightness

who the hell carries a torch that doesnt light anything?

Hey, I only started to explore caves for cavebulbs yesterday. No torch = complete darkness, which makes good sense since it's a cave. Having a torch = able to see a little bit. I've managed to find around 12 cavebulbs. Admittedly, I am abusing the torch by unequipping/re-equipping it to avoid it burning out since I don't want to make another linen cloth, but I guess I wouldn't really mind making and taking a few torches with me on my cave adventures.

Sure, darkness is a pain in the ass. So is grinding skill values after you've learned all the skills you want (as well as most/all of the ones you didn't want on a whim since you earn such mad LP). So is carrying a boat across some plains or building a new one on the other side, so is the stamina drain from running in forests, so is everything. This game is pretty tedious, especially after you've built your own little settlement/village since you probably won't change much after that. Here's a fun idea, let's give every new character 100 in all skill values and attributes, give them every skill, and remove the cooldown on changing a belief! Then we wouldn't have to put up with all the grinding and could get straight to "playing the fucking game".

I also think it would be nice if there was something more fun than being blinded if you happen to log in at night. However, it's rules that make a game what it is. If you played a game of hide and seek without rules, it means the person counting can simply skip the count and catch everyone right away, and it also means one player can ride their bicycle 5 km away and then take a bus to the next town or that people who are caught don't have to act as though they were caught at all. Of course, that's a more extreme example of bypassing rules, but still. While seeing in the dark might not be as harmful as that in general purposes, it certainly destroys the purpose of night/day... and I don't know if it works in caves, but that would completely defeat the purpose of their darkness and any sense of adventure if it does.