Stats not permanent

[TeckXKnight]

Haha, holy shit you're mad.

Danno's suggestion at its core isn't great; it's to make the core of character development impermanent and fluid. In doing so you force specialization on players, as the investment to gain stats is the same, and thus changing your direction would hamper any value you would otherwise provide. You could always make stats cheap but that's against the nature of what Danno wants and it'd also make the core of infrastructure mostly pointless. Alternatively you could rework everything else to fit the system and its reduced levels of effectiveness but that has the same cheapening effect.

When you tamper with the numbers the way that Danno and the last few people purporting that have suggested then you end up attempting to revamp the entire game to its core to permit a change that doesn't add anything to the game. I'd argue that it takes away meaning from the game but I'd be wasting my breath because just about everyone else already understands that. Character development is a thing of fun and beauty.

As for arguing that brickwalls are too powerful or not powerful enough; welcome to worlds 3-6. To enact the same degree of immunity upon palisades will garner them the same treatment. The last thing we need is a return to vaults.

[Scubas]

If a ram is required palisade is invincible because people can make like 10 alts and attack the ram, trying to break it.
If four people were guarding they would successfully kill four alts before the ram is broken (because they lose their attack bar) and you can make infinite alts.

The problem with what you just mentioned is the fact that one CAN make an army of alts. However, I do understand that this sort of thing can't really be helped in any way, as the devs can't really limit how many different accounts players can have.

A way to combat this, perhaps, is to make it to where battering rams have a -very slightly- higher soak than what they do now, so that people can't alt-zerg the ram? But not so high as to deter the semi-established player from being able to affect it.

[NOOBY93]

If a ram is required palisade is invincible because people can make like 10 alts and attack the ram, trying to break it.
If four people were guarding they would successfully kill four alts before the ram is broken (because they lose their attack bar) and you can make infinite alts.

The problem with what you just mentioned is the fact that one CAN make an army of alts. However, I do understand that this sort of thing can't really be helped in any way, as the devs can't really limit how many different accounts players can have.

A way to combat this, perhaps, is to make it to where battering rams have a -very slightly- higher soak than what they do now, so that people can't alt-zerg the ram? But not so high as to deter the semi-established player from being able to affect it.

Teck said palisades are invinicible if you NEED a ram to break them.
I agree because you CAN make alts.
Point proven.

[Scubas]

Haha, holy shit you're mad.

Danno's suggestion at its core isn't great

This just in: The way the game is now, isn't great. Everyone is so scared of an overhaul of the game's mechanics, why? This game is in alpha. While I understand that it would take a huge amount of time to test something like this properly, for christ sakes I'll just reiterate, IT'S IN ALPHA. Things are meant to be tested, new ideas are meant to be given a thought somewhat, rather than being instantly written off just because you don't like the way it initially sounds.

And to be honest, the whole "you're mad" thing is a bit childish and unneccesary. I feel that I'm responding pretty appropriately given the sheer unwarranted audacity of some others' posts in this thread. If you'd like me to give examples, I'd be happy to oblige you. I just wouldn't try to pretend that I'm the only one that's being a fucking douche, here.

Just FYI, I made a stealth edit on the post in which i first replied to you.

[NOOBY93]

Yeah but, saying no to obviously stupid ideas is a good thing to do.

[TeckXKnight]

No one has a problem with an overhaul of the game mechanics; most people are just opposed to changes that will take the game in a direction that more or less makes it worse. Large overhauls that are likely to warrant no valuable information other than "this was bad and a waste of time" aren't a good thing to pursue.

I think a better pursuit would be to ask what it is that is detrimenting your play and what about it is.

The idea that stats are too ridiculous and easy to acquire is countered by the reality of the situation that the food mechanics are some of the best features of Haven. To suggest that we should be axing a huge portion of that mechanic and steering away from it is quite easy to recognize as a poor suggestion.

[Patchouli_Knowledge]

Something to note is that before in world 5 steel was required for crossroad is that crossroad vaults was very viable to the point that brickwall was third place in terms of vault security losing only to minehole vaults because it costs a handful of wood and some dreams while being chief/lawspeaker allows you to break it down almost as easily as sign to adjust your defense to not only allow yourself unlimited mobility within your vault but also to prevent access to attacker's rams by making a crossroad wall in front of it. Not only that, a circulating layout for a vault allows you to "juggle" enemies forcing them to move into the other direction and making them start all over on progress. That is what we will be seeing if palisade is required to have a ram to break down and 95% of the time, the owner of the vaults will win the war of attrition on effort.

[cloakblade]

I'm trying to argue for the Danno but the system he has stated is both half thought through and probably isn't appropriate for Haven and Hearth.

One of my main reasons of saying this is half thought through is the fact that Danno thinks Stats are the main thing that people use to carry themselves through combat (and on top of that the STR stat being the most important stat). The UA skill is far more important than any stat in combat and AGL is better than STR for stats. STR does almost nothing in combat if I had a character with 10 STR and 400 AGL vs a character with 400 STR and 10 AGL (and we were equal outside of that) then I'd win every time due to the 2:1 speed bonus allowing me to never have my defense bar broken and I could finish him with a sting from a sword if I got far enough ahead as they currently scale well off of damage.

Also you suggest some combat changes which should be in a separate post. Combat is currently broken and is a Stat/s v Stat/s game with a much lower skill cap then should be allowed. And its almost impossible to learn as you can almost never find anyone to fight who will be at the same level as you.

[Scubas]

the reality of the situation that the food mechanics are some of the best features of Haven.

That is not reality, that is your opinion. In your opinion, it is a good idea. In my opinion, it isn't. Eating a mushroom should not make it to where I can move my fingers faster. That's pretty fucking stupid imo.

I'm not saying that Haven should be Skyrim here, but I have personally always agreed with Bethesda's idea of RPG character progression, in the sense that the more you do any given action, the better you become with it. Fighting animals could raise your strength over time. Taking hits could improve your constitution, as you develop a pain tolerance. Practicing sewing by making shit-ass nettle gear over and over until you get better at doing it, could raise your dexterity.

I can't believe I'm bringing this up yet again, but Danno's original post said that FEP's should be reworked to be a system similar to personal beliefs. Meaning, not 100% crucial to playing the game, but PERHAPS allowing you to get buffs based on the food that you eat, with a tendency of raising a stat permanently if you eat the same type of food often.

Teck said palisades are invinicible if you NEED a ram to break them.

Point proven.

Yeah, no, point not proven at all. That sentence is blatantly contradicting of itself. If something is INVINCIBLE, it is incapable of being broken by anything. Why, then, would a ram be capable of breaking it if it were invincible?

Here's a fucking hint: Because it ISN'T invincible. I have explained a way in which alt zerging a built ram could be combatted, too.

[TeckXKnight]

I'm not saying that Haven should be Skyrim here, but I have personally always agreed with Bethesda's idea of RPG character progression, in the sense that the more you do any given action, the better you become with it. Fighting animals could raise your strength over time. Taking hits could improve your constitution, as you develop a pain tolerance. Practicing sewing by making shit-ass nettle gear over and over until you get better at doing it, could raise your dexterity.

I can't believe I'm bringing this up yet again, but Danno's original post said that FEP's should be reworked to be a system similar to personal beliefs. Meaning, not 100% crucial to playing the game, but PERHAPS allowing you to get buffs based on the food that you eat, with a tendency of raising a stat permanently if you eat the same type of food often.

No. God no. Activity based progression, while it sounds fun on paper, in practice is a horrible concept. As we have learned, it lends itself towards players performing activities that are most ideal towards grinding something rather than doing anything productive. What you end up with is an economy for play meant to gain stats through meaningless actions. We don't need bucketgrinding 2.0. We've tested this and it was a bad idea. It's fine for a single player game but the concept works out poorly in a multiplayer game.

Even in older examples of it, such as UO, it was the most bottable, grindiest part of the game. For combat you enter a spar with someone, went afk, and just pinged each other endlessly overnight to gain stats and skills. If you were a scribe or alchemist or any other crafter then you just loaded up on the base materials and went afk for a day or two while your character botted out trash goods; maybe popping in once in awhile to switch what item you're crafting to improve your gains.

It's also nearly unanimously agreed upon that the slider system is terrible. Most people just want the personal belief system axed as it spends more time detrimenting play than anything else. Trying to mold other systems into it is not a good idea. What makes it terrible is that it promotes not doing anything for as long as possible until your sliders are maxed and then you're just on par with everyone else. It is an artificial wait time that punishes you for trying to do things such as playing the game.