Reduce Number-crunching in Attribute Levelling

[DatOneGuy]

While that way of raising stats probably works fine and all that, I'm sure it's not as efficient and if you go by that way of eating and I go by mine seriously, for a month, I'd be in the lead.


All of that works fine and dandy up until you're around that point, I for example didn't bother with dex/psy, so if get some sure it's not that bad, dex is good for crafting some stuff on the moment like treepots or stuff but whatever, still not a huge deal to me though. If I see dex in my con food, because of this it isn't a huge deal, however it's still one point less that I'd be getting into CON which is the stat I want, not DEX.

Once my DEX does get to 100 I see it as a loss if I get those points, so the only time I'd actually vary is if I'm eating something like pirozkhi, instead of doing so I'd rather eat a mix of pumpkin pie/pumpkin bread alongside it to mix in effectively, I find that using them both the chances of me getting CHA, STR, or DEX lowers significantly. STR isn't bad as STR is always wanted, but if I want my CON to reach my STR it's also not a great thing.

Yeah there are better ways for straight CON (Bark bread, cow chorizo, a few others) but those ways are more of a pain in the ass tbh.

Unless you play often enough to say "I think I'll go fishing today" you tend to just keep up with your daily or bi-daily crap like milking cows and making cheese, taking care of crops and making food of it, those kinds of things. I'm not gonna say "Hey I'll go out fishing", which is another problem with fishing is that I'd have to make sure I have the kind of fish for the kind of seafood I actually want. Fishing in general is too much more to keep up with, remembering when I have to fish, all of that. It's fun as you're a newbie but it's not a reliable source as you keep increasing, for example I'd prefer RoBs over DDDs because they're slightly more reliable even though DDDs are a bit better.

[Potjeh]

Fishing is actually very reliable these days. Go fishing on a full moon with earthworms, and you're guaranteed to catch mostly eel, with an occasional sturgeon thrown in the mix. Crescent moon is for plaice, and I haven't really been bothering figuring out the other fish. But whatever fish you catch can be used for fish sticks, which are quite good given how little effort they take. And more often than not you'll catch a two fillet fish in either deep or shallows, so it goes twice as fast.

OK, I guess dex can be a bit problematic since it's quite useless beyond a certain point, but having my dex too high means I don't have to invest as much LP in sewing. Other stats are a bit less problematic, but you're right that str is OP and needs some serious nerfing.

As for who'd have higher stats in a month, I don't think you'd win. Well, you would, but only because you'd play more hours a day than I do, the game just stops being fun for me if I play too much. But I still get a free FEP event for every 5-6 I get normally, thanks to FEP reduction.

And I do say "I'm going fishing today" or "I'm going hunting" or "I'm farming" when I log in. The trick is to have smaller fields, so you can handle them all in an hour or so and then have time for cooking/hunting/fishing/whatever. Doing those other things is no less productive than farming, and at the end of the day I get varied food. I don't lose noticable amount of time switching between tasks because I have an extensive crossroads system so everything is just two teleports away. OK, I do lose a lot of time sailing around when I'm hunting, but that's just how hunting works and it definitely pays off LP-wise. Plus doing a wide variety of tasks is a lot more fun than making pumpkin pie all day long, IMO.

[Avu]

This fep reduction thingie is like a religion to you isn't it? Facts don't sway you, common sense doesn't sway you, numbers don't...

[sabinati]

all food owns especially birthday cake

[Potjeh]

What facts and numbers? I thought we established that you'll get more FEP events with mixed food, and it's common sense that more is better. Really, the crux of your argument is that all stats but str and con are utterly useless, but I don't think that's true.
- Perception can be used to avoid putting points into cooking, and LP is more important than stats. And to find those rare high stealth criminals - it's a lot easier to pinpoint his location on the world map if you have narrow direction indicators, just track from two distant locations, see where lines intersect and you saved yourself hours of trekking across the wilderness if you can teleport to a location near him. OK, it's not very useful, but it's not useless either.
- Agility is useless once you have enough to teleport from one corner of the world to the other, I'll give you that.
- Charisma is only useless if you always feast alone. Feasts with lots of people with high charisma will save you a lot of time and clicks on handplowing. Also useful if you want a village claim of epic size (think a whole regional map). And then there's those nifty combat moves if you're a party leader.
- Intelligence is less useful than charisma, but still not useless. Your scents will definitely be found if you left them in a village where it's easy to figure out where to look, but hard to see scents in a middle of a forest can be very frustrating to find. And leaving scents with fewer uses can also make it a bit more difficult to find you, especially since they can't reliably check angles on the world map to pinpoint your location.
- Dex isn't very useful beyond a certain point, but I suppose it can still save you investing LP into sewing. Better linen means more LP, and LP is better than stats.
- Psy I'll give you. If you're not the village jeweller and you don't do silk, it's quite useless. If you do silk, a bit of psy in your diet isn't all that bad.

Anyway, the point is that most stats are useful, only some are more useful and some less. That's why you raise the more useful ones more. For example, I could eat a diet that's 34% str, 30% con, 10% per, 5% agi, 10% cha, 5% int, 5% dex and 1% psy from the very start, and I'd have a decent ratio of stats throughout my character's life. The numbers are purely for example, you can adjust it for more str and con. It isn't all that hard to pull off such a diet, since strength foods give lots of FEPs and con has lots of different foods that are over 50% con.


That all being said, I do think that food variety could stand to be a bit more important. I'd do this by cutting base FEPs of all food to 1/2 or even 1/4 of the current values. This would also serve the slow down stat gains, since it's getting a bit ridiculous these days. I remember when 700 str was epic, now everyone and his mother has it.

[Avu]

We established that mixing foods gives a very slight bonus to feps. Slight. And read again the crux of my argument is that doing the "best" foods in a category beats doing 10 random foods that will gain me that slight bonus. If a food involves a cauldron/herb tables/roasting/fishing or worse a combination of these then it's not efficient for large numbers. It's slow and annoying requires multiple other resources or storage space. So you might gain your silly slight bonus for each food you eat but I will simply have more food to eat for time invested and stop arguing this point doing shit in bulk is more time efficient than not doing it in bulk.

The fact that some stats are useless does also mean food gets wasted sometimes with your approach but it's not the "crux of my argument".

And your list of what's useless or not is quite subjective once I have enough to cook I don't need more per nor do I need 1000 per to track down anyone. So useless after a point.
Charisma is useless and trash the combat moves are lol worthy and feasting together is fiction I eat when I get hungry and I have food everyone does the same getting two people together to feast would be a feat on itself certainly not something to repeat and sorry to burst your bubble but hand plowing is a shitty way to gain hunger. As for authority gain yeah maybe it's useful if you're alone in the village otherwise equipment is enough to raise it not to even notice auth drain...
Inteligence is trash... harder to see scents reaaaly... why do I need to hide my scents when I can make a murder fort...
Dex is useless for someone that doesn't do sewing and piroz are good enough for the people that do sewing. And really the lp is in cooking not in making linen...
Psy utter trash unless you're the smith/table setter.

Don't get me wrong I have quite high values for some of these stats but I got them because I could not because I have any real use for them...

Oh and if you think str is so great sorry to burst your bubble but it ain't... unless you want break palisades/bricks with your bare hands str like all other stats is quite useless after a point as well. Weapon is the deciding factor in upper damage not str. Why most people raise it is because it's easy and at least it sounds good in theory...

And your solution to food variety is cutting base feps? Making it scale with high feps doesn't ring a bell?

[Potjeh]

Cauldron is a lot better than oven in my book. Ovens are horrible, horrible things. Food that takes herb tables ain't bad when you got a cellar full of them. I just demote tree planting tables to food once I can make better ones.

I still don't see how making a single food lets you make more food per time than making a mix. Those other things are on average equal to farming, or maybe slightly better because farming is the most click-intensive way of obtaining food. Making sausage from domesticated animals is superior, because you can get like two cupboards of meat from one animal for very little effort.

And well, since you say all stats are almost equally shitty at high levels, what is so horrible about gaining the "wrong" stat?

Scaling variety bonus with total FEPs from food would *discourage* eating a varied diet. And do you really think that the current rates of stat growth aren't a bit ridiculous?

[Avu]

Ovens suck but having a shitton of them helps. And I have a system...

Food that takes herb tables ain't bad when you got a cellar full of them.

Sorry cellar is for cheese... both of them...

I still don't see how making a single food lets you make more food per time than making a mix.

You keep ignoring the fact that you have to move between all these food producing stuff... even those two clicks for going to the fishing spot equiping the fishing rod loading up on worms add up and they add up for each new food item you produce...

They're not equally shitty some are shittier than others. Int for example...

[Potjeh]

A shitton of ovens is a shitton of repairs. Cauldron and grinder don't need repairs.

You have two mansion cellars full of full cheese racks? How many cows do you have, 50?

Moving between fields takes time too. And when you're doing stuff in bulk you need more storage space, which means you have to do more walking - time requirements for porting never raise. And putting a worm on a pole and casting is easier than harvesting, sorting and replanting a tile of crop.

[spectacle]

Why don't the two of you post your stats, that's the only way to find out which style of cuisine is most efficient.