Happiness System Idea

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Happiness System Idea

Postby Mitudev » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:56 am

Currently the happiness system does not do much besides take up a sliver of the screen and let me know that my character does not like dead bodies and likes killing ants with his axe. Then I figured that everyone has the same likes and dislikes that makes them happy. Can I not have a character that feels somewhat comforted (calmed or excited, whatever) by dead bodies? I purpose that the happiness system is an extension of the Purchasable Skills to create a mechanic that fleshes out characters.

This system would comprise of Traits (or Personalities, Quirks, Ethos, it does not matter). The Traits your character is able to purchase depends on the Non-incremental Skills that your character has purchased. Animal Husbandry would give you access to different Traits than Carpentry would. Traits would rely on actions done by characters or affects of the environment upon them that the game can already recognize to limit the amount of coding required by adding to modifiers and recognition (not sure how H&H is set up java wise).

    1 - The Trait would affect either Happiness or Unhappiness and would be split into Positive and Negative traits. For every positive Trait you took, you would take a negative Trait. You would have a limit of two or three of each category, and thereby limiting the ways your character would gain or lose happiness. The trait 'Green Thumb' would give you happiness when you are committing the act of Farming (planting or harvesting crops) while the trait Claustrophobic would lower your happiness while inside of a cave.

    2 - Traits would have both positive and negative affects that are opposite of the other. For example, Pacifist would give you a limited amount of happiness when your character is not in a combat, however when in combat the character would become extremely unhappy very quickly as a response as long as he is in combat.

I am personally leaning towards combined traits because it is a simple way to get the player involved with how he wants to play his character. The first option, although allows for a bit more customization involves more traits and more modifiers and work to go into it. The first is a little unwieldily for the current scope of the game, and for the rest of the post I will focus on the second idea of Traits.

Now I will move that three Traits would be better than two and four. Two seems too little and four seems like too many for the purpose I am moving that Happiness is used for.

Happiness should effect the character's abilities in a small but desirable way. This way players will want to gain happiness and choose their Traits carefully. I purpose that Happiness at 100% has the following effect:
    +10% Lp gain
    +10% Quality to any item made, crop harvested, clay dug up, ore mined, et cetra
On the opposite end, 100% Unhappiness would have the opposite effects of -10% Lp gain and -10% Quality.

Now you can see that two traits that increase Happiness would probably not allow your character to reach 100% happiness while four traits would give you too many ways to increase and decrease your happiness. Three sits in a snug position that allows you to gain between 60% and 100% happiness depending on your choices of Action and Passive Traits which will be described below.

The next question may be this: But if you can gain Happiness by not fighting through Pacifist, won't everyone not fight and have 100% Happiness all the time?
True, you will gain happiness from not being in combat with Pacifist, but passive Traits would give happiness at a slow rate and have a cap at how much Happiness one may earn from it that is lower than a Trait that requires the player to actually do something. For a passive Trait that requires the player not to do anything, the character may gain happiness slowly to a maximum of 20 or 25% of his happiness bar while a Pacifist in combat would lose Happiness at a very fast rate to a maximum of between -40% and -50%. This would also work in reverse. If you had the trait 'Sadist' that increases happiness while in Combat or Butchering and decreases happiness when not harming something. The happiness cap for Sadist would be around 50% while the unhappiness cap would be -25% and would diminish over a longer period of time because you can only kill so quickly (and so often). This also does not encourage killing other players, but does facilitate it.

Using Traits of the aforementioned fashion players will choose Traits for their characters that respond to how they want to play in H&H. If all you want to do is farm, smoke, and drink wine there will be Traits that make you happy for doing that, however, when you are not doing those things or doing things that are found unpleasant you will become unhappy. It lets you do what you want to do and rewards you for it by giving you more Lp and better Quality items.

Comments?

EDIT: People change, so would characters. Traits would not remain stagnant and would be able to change traits once every five Personal Belief changes. That way more flexible characters would change more often while more traditional folks would stay the same and take old beliefs to heart.
Last edited by Mitudev on Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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W3: Crofton the Hermit

There was once a bear with crimson hair
He moved faster than Kail could see:
And took his fingers three.

Excerpt from the Battle of Seven Fingers
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby LimaZulu » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:10 am

I like it. Yes, it sounds a little like the Sims, but in a good way, and it would make the different playstyles more applicable. Gardner would be happy taking care of plants and unhappy mining, and a miner would be the opposite. I like the idea a lot.
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Mitudev » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:52 am

LimaZulu wrote:I like it. Yes, it sounds a little like the Sims, but in a good way, and it would make the different playstyles more applicable. Gardner would be happy taking care of plants and unhappy mining, and a miner would be the opposite. I like the idea a lot.


Thanks for the response. I have never played the Sims, so I wouldn't know.
W5: Sevenson
W4: Kail the Chieftain of Providence
W3: Crofton the Hermit

There was once a bear with crimson hair
He moved faster than Kail could see:
And took his fingers three.

Excerpt from the Battle of Seven Fingers
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby LimaZulu » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:54 am

Mitudev wrote:
LimaZulu wrote:I like it. Yes, it sounds a little like the Sims, but in a good way, and it would make the different playstyles more applicable. Gardner would be happy taking care of plants and unhappy mining, and a miner would be the opposite. I like the idea a lot.


Thanks for the response. I have never played the Sims, so I wouldn't know.


The newest one has it so different characters have different traits; a person with the angler trait is happy to fish all day and do nothing else, and a gardener sim is happy to be gardening. Things like that. I like the idea that you can sort of set your character into a role, but some might find that too restrictive if they're trying to go for a jack of all trades.
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Mitudev » Thu Feb 03, 2011 4:14 am

LimaZulu wrote:The newest one has it so different characters have different traits; a person with the angler trait is happy to fish all day and do nothing else, and a gardener sim is happy to be gardening. Things like that. I like the idea that you can sort of set your character into a role, but some might find that too restrictive if they're trying to go for a jack of all trades.


The jack of all trades would be able to choose generalized traits that cover a wider swath. You also get to choose three, which could cover a lot of ground.
W5: Sevenson
W4: Kail the Chieftain of Providence
W3: Crofton the Hermit

There was once a bear with crimson hair
He moved faster than Kail could see:
And took his fingers three.

Excerpt from the Battle of Seven Fingers
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby DDDsDD999 » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:57 am

I don't really like this traits thing. The Personal belief system influencing happiness is easier to control. All the rest seems good. The only problem with happiness affecting Q, is spiraling.
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Jackard » Fri Feb 04, 2011 1:06 am

only reason happiness meter still exists is because they havent mustered the effort required to remove it






dont think they even mentioned wanting to do anything with it since world one
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Granger » Fri Feb 04, 2011 2:10 am

Actually i do like the idea of happiness, and i would more like it to be fleshed out instead of being removed.

So +1 for the idea.
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Quilinho » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:11 am

Mitudev wrote:Currently the happiness system does not do much besides take up a sliver of the screen and let me know that my character does not like dead bodies and likes killing ants with his axe. Then I figured that everyone has the same likes and dislikes that makes them happy. Can I not have a character that feels somewhat comforted (calmed or excited, whatever) by dead bodies? I purpose that the happiness system is an extension of the Purchasable Skills to create a mechanic that fleshes out characters.

This system would comprise of Traits (or Personalities, Quirks, Ethos, it does not matter). The Traits your character is able to purchase depends on the Non-incremental Skills that your character has purchased. Animal Husbandry would give you access to different Traits than Carpentry would. Traits would rely on actions done by characters or affects of the environment upon them that the game can already recognize to limit the amount of coding required by adding to modifiers and recognition (not sure how H&H is set up java wise).

    1 - The Trait would affect either Happiness or Unhappiness and would be split into Positive and Negative traits. For every positive Trait you took, you would take a negative Trait. You would have a limit of two or three of each category, and thereby limiting the ways your character would gain or lose happiness. The trait 'Green Thumb' would give you happiness when you are committing the act of Farming (planting or harvesting crops) while the trait Claustrophobic would lower your happiness while inside of a cave.

    2 - Traits would have both positive and negative affects that are opposite of the other. For example, Pacifist would give you a limited amount of happiness when your character is not in a combat, however when in combat the character would become extremely unhappy very quickly as a response as long as he is in combat.

I am personally leaning towards combined traits because it is a simple way to get the player involved with how he wants to play his character. The first option, although allows for a bit more customization involves more traits and more modifiers and work to go into it. The first is a little unwieldily for the current scope of the game, and for the rest of the post I will focus on the second idea of Traits.

Now I will move that three Traits would be better than two and four. Two seems too little and four seems like too many for the purpose I am moving that Happiness is used for.

Happiness should effect the character's abilities in a small but desirable way. This way players will want to gain happiness and choose their Traits carefully. I purpose that Happiness at 100% has the following effect:
    +10% Lp gain
    +10% Quality to any item made, crop harvested, clay dug up, ore mined, et cetra
On the opposite end, 100% Unhappiness would have the opposite effects of -10% Lp gain and -10% Quality.

Now you can see that two traits that increase Happiness would probably not allow your character to reach 100% happiness while four traits would give you too many ways to increase and decrease your happiness. Three sits in a snug position that allows you to gain between 60% and 100% happiness depending on your choices of Action and Passive Traits which will be described below.

The next question may be this: But if you can gain Happiness by not fighting through Pacifist, won't everyone not fight and have 100% Happiness all the time?
True, you will gain happiness from not being in combat with Pacifist, but passive Traits would give happiness at a slow rate and have a cap at how much Happiness one may earn from it that is lower than a Trait that requires the player to actually do something. For a passive Trait that requires the player not to do anything, the character may gain happiness slowly to a maximum of 20 or 25% of his happiness bar while a Pacifist in combat would lose Happiness at a very fast rate to a maximum of between -40% and -50%. This would also work in reverse. If you had the trait 'Sadist' that increases happiness while in Combat or Butchering and decreases happiness when not harming something. The happiness cap for Sadist would be around 50% while the unhappiness cap would be -25% and would diminish over a longer period of time because you can only kill so quickly (and so often). This also does not encourage killing other players, but does facilitate it.

Using Traits of the aforementioned fashion players will choose Traits for their characters that respond to how they want to play in H&H. If all you want to do is farm, smoke, and drink wine there will be Traits that make you happy for doing that, however, when you are not doing those things or doing things that are found unpleasant you will become unhappy. It lets you do what you want to do and rewards you for it by giving you more Lp and better Quality items.

Comments?

EDIT: People change, so would characters. Traits would not remain stagnant and would be able to change traits once every five Personal Belief changes. That way more flexible characters would change more often while more traditional folks would stay the same and take old beliefs to heart.


I read a post with the same idea, but much smaller, one page behind.
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Re: Happiness System Idea

Postby Mitudev » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:49 am

Quilinho wrote:I read a post with the same idea, but much smaller, one page behind.


By same idea I hope you meant that it involved happiness. That idea was to use the belief system to affect happiness. This system would implement a new set of defined traits that are affected by your actions or effected by your environment. Beliefs really do not equate into the system until you want to change one of the said traits.
W5: Sevenson
W4: Kail the Chieftain of Providence
W3: Crofton the Hermit

There was once a bear with crimson hair
He moved faster than Kail could see:
And took his fingers three.

Excerpt from the Battle of Seven Fingers
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