On Risk And Reward

[kobnach]

I suspect that if people pay attention to who posts what, I'm getting quite a reputation for wanting a zero risk game. That's not really true - I'm just in react mode an awful lot, plus inclined to oppose anything JTG favours almost by reflex, as almost certainly designed to make the maximum number of people as unhappy as possible.

The question though is how much risk is appropriate. A game with no risk is a sand box - kind of fun if you like building, but ultimately boring. I still haven't run out of interest in H&H as a sandbox, and wish all these risks wouldn't keep interfering with me playing with it in sandbox mode. Yet in the long run - new features won't come fast enough to keep my interest, once I've tried all that already exist, without something else. Now that something else can be gaining levels, resources etc. - except that doesn't work too well if it's just predictable grinding. At some point even I will want some risk - for an appropriate reward of course.

And therein lies the problem. Perma-kill animals in the Ring of Brodgar merely add risk. The same applies e.g. to players looking to gain LP by player killing. Add to this crash-risk, theft-risk, and object decay - and I've got all the risks I need, thank you so much. Moreover I've left out a few - like the risk of having all neighbouring forests repeatedly clear cut, leaving me without lumber no matter how much replanting I do.

What is needed is risk that comes with rewards. Thus, for example, the best LP should come from the most dangerous animals. And living near those hunting grounds should come complete with aggressive animals wandering through your camp. (J&L got that right.) However, it should be possible to reduce both risk and reward - and that's where the problems come in. To reduce human risk, move to Mordor. To reduce animal risk, stay near the Ring. At least I get LP rewards from dangerous animals - and don't presently have risk of being perma-killed by them. That's just a bit backwards, but it's the way this game is developing.

So my challenge for those advocating increased risks is to find (a) a source of rewards to balance those risks and (b) a way for people to opt out of both. Otherwise all your new idea will do is forced increased risk on people who'd rather not deal with it. (And don't bother talking about "excitement" as a benefit; I play this kind of game to relax.)

So, how do we allow someone risk averse - or new - to stay in relatively safe territory, with little or no chance of losing most of their LP for (e.g.) exploring their way onto the wrong person's territory, getting themselves lost , choosing a conflict-prone settlement, or simply having a trouble-maker randomly target them? And how do we allow JTG and Raephire to take lots of risks, and get some large rewards from them - if they don't get perma-killed instead. (Are there any animals that really challenge you in the current map, Raephire? or are you just grinding bears?)

[Jackard]

wont infinite maps help hermits

[kobnach]

wont infinite maps help hermits

I certainly hope so. The real question is whether it will be possible to turtle up without going beyond the level of animal danger one can cope with - which is probably why these suggestions for perma-death animals are getting such a bad reaction from me.

[JTG]

Stop being a huge vagina, If you want no risk work with a group of settlers, or close to the ring, As dangerous animals and events will only happen to people willing to explore and move out into said areas.

You'll never be safe from thieves and murderers, stop trying to ruin everyone elses fun by crying at any suggestion of being able to die to things you should have seen coming beforehand or disasters. Problem solved.

Most of the people playing the game want it to be harsh, and like a roguelike, or wilderness survival simulation. Because SURPRISE we all share that same interest.

What you keep suggesting is that the world should remain as one-sided and one-dimensional as it is right now. Theres basically nothing in terms of risk associated death happening.

If we get rivers that can kill people, stay out of them. Problem solved.

If we get animals that murder people, stop going out too far. Problem solved.

If you can starve and dehydrate to death. Eat and drink from your no risk civilized zone. Problem solved.

You can play sandbox, and the rest of us can play a wilderness survival/development mmorpg.

[Yolan]

@JTG
Did you even actually read what Kobnatch wrote before embarking on that rant?

[JTG]

Its all the same, hes posted like 6 different posts that all say he hates risk, and wants all the rewards to be risk free.

I don't even want to read them at this point.

[Jackard]

@JTG
Did you even actually read what Kobnatch wrote before embarking on that rant?

well he's pretty much right, i just didn't want to put it that way

[Raephire]

If you don't want risk, Don't enter areas with X or above animals. Or go into dungeons in the future (Yea people, they mentioned a questing system)

Don't involve yourself in wars, Don't personally take action against thieves.. Don't do a whole lot of stuff.

[theTrav]

If you don't want risk, Don't enter areas with X or above animals. Or go into dungeons in the future (Yea people, they mentioned a questing system)

Don't involve yourself in wars, Don't personally take action against thieves.. Don't do a whole lot of stuff.

I believe if you play the entire game from within the spawning chamber, you will never be at any risk at all.

[Tinsley]

The OP wasn't against risk, he was against shitty rewards for taking huge risks. Which means that huge risks are not worth a damn. See: hunters that punch bears. They run very little risk(really, a bear can't kill you, you're unlikely to get into a fight with another bear-puncher if you meet), but get huge rewards. In fact, the greatest rewards: tons of LP and bear meat that can be traded for anything because EVERYONE wants more strength.

Want an example of more balanced risk and reward? Thieves. They can steal for great rewards and run the great risk of getting tracked and faceraped by a ranger with 150 exploration or running into a brick wall vault. The point is not to remove or decrease risk but to improve rewards.