Game Development: Sniffing Glue

[Gauteamus]

+5 insightful, Avu.

Hope we get ninja skills+grapplehooks next update. Those two ways of attacking really are two quite separate matters (see earlier threads)

[Avu]

especially people with helms deeps completely untouchable.

The main problem with Helms Deep-style encampments isn't the strength of the walls, however; but rather the fact that they don't need a way out because of crossroads. I think crossroads need to be fixed so that they cannot be linked within the same village.

What will THAT fix? I mean other than your need to make us suffer? All people need to do is make sure the idol of the helms deep is behind the walls. I can invit whoever needs to have his HF protected he can travel there and then reinvite them to their real village. Problem solved.

[warrri]

especially people with helms deeps completely untouchable.

The main problem with Helms Deep-style encampments isn't the strength of the walls, however; but rather the fact that they don't need a way out because of crossroads. I think crossroads need to be fixed so that they cannot be linked within the same village.

What has a village to do with helms deep at all. It just prevents the enemy from stelaing the claim and bashing the walls without vandalism. I can just build helms deep from inside to outside and never teleport to my hearthfire again.

[loftar]

I can just build helms deep from inside to outside and never teleport to my hearthfire again.

Ah, you misunderstand. It wouldn't fix summoning inside such places -- for that, wall scaling and/or other techniques would be necessary and reasonable (though I think it would be more reasonable to try and re-design Hearth Fires so that it is better for their own owners if they are accessible).

The problem I was alluding to is that the travel system breaks the game in many ways, and the crossroads are the most symptomatic aspects of it. The problem with the travel system, as Avu also, however indirectly, alludes to is the fact that it makes the topography of the map asymmetrical with respect to different characters. Some characters can get inside closed walls simply because they are part of a village or has a Hearth Fire inside, while those who haven't got those arbitrary requirements cannot. The reason I mentioned crossroads specifically is simply because they can be so easily used to engineer such situations, but the problem is certainly not limited to them. (Limiting crossroads so as to not work within the same village would alleviate, though unfortunately not necessarily fix, the problem.)

[MightyAgrippa]

The main problem with Helms Deep-style encampments isn't the strength of the walls, however; but rather the fact that they don't need a way out because of crossroads. I think crossroads need to be fixed so that they cannot be linked within the same village.

What has a village to do with helms deep at all. It just prevents the enemy from stelaing the claim and bashing the walls without vandalism. I can just build helms deep from inside to outside and never teleport to my hearthfire again.

That's risky unless you're sure you'll be able to fast travel from your fortress to a village. Sometimes you have to log in at hearth after a crash or some zealous building in your village. Without a way out you risk having to smash your own hearth and log in the wild.

And Loftar, changing crossroads won't stop the current fortress designs. Option 1 is to build the village idol outside the walls and leave an alt there as chieftain, so if you need to get out you just get invited and travel to idol. Option 2 is to build a second village outside the walls and have linked crossroads between them. I like having crossroads for intravillage travel, please don't take them out when they'll just get replaced by extra villages.

[loftar]

And Loftar, changing crossroads won't stop the current fortress designs. Option 1 is to build the village idol outside the walls and leave an alt there as chieftain, so if you need to get out you just get invited and travel to idol. Option 2 is to build a second village outside the walls and have linked crossroads between them.

Well,

The problem with the travel system is the fact that it makes the topography of the map asymmetrical with respect to different characters. [...]

;)

[Avu]

(Limiting crossroads so as to not work within the same village would alleviate, though unfortunately not necessarily fix, the problem.)

No it wouldn't. And I told you why. I also find it amazing how you find time to screw us over by wanting to remove everything that makes the game fun and enjoyable but never find time to get rid of the goddamn keys or fix the seedbags or the ancestor system or the auto walk speed or make ovens hold a decent amount of dough or a million other things. There is nothing wrong with the game but inter-village travel isn't it? That thing is pure evil people should god damn spend all their online time clicking construction signs and walking with carts of branches from trees that regenerate randomly (...). Why don't you just admit it that you get a hardon every time you add more tedium and every time your remove a good aspect of the game.

[Grog]

what differences does it (for an foreighner) make if there is a gate he dont get access or not?

[Avu]

makes the topography of the map asymmetrical with respect to different characters

wtf does that even mean? Does it mean some people have access to some places other peoples don't and that is like bad? How about claims? Walls? Keys? All that shit "makes the map asymmetrical with respect to different characters" (lolwut). Should we remove that too?

[loftar]

There is nothing wrong with the game but inter-village travel isn't it?

Either you are misunderstanding me or I am misunderstanding you. The specific action of making crossroads unable to link within the same village would not change inter-village travel at all, only intra-village travel. (Of course, that specific action is broken anyway, since one could just use an external dummy village as a travel nexus; I only used it statutory in an attempt to point out the problem.)

I think it should be clear from what I wrote that I am not opposed to inter-village travel per se in any way -- only how its current implementation breaks many important aspects of the game in that it makes it possible to create truly impenetrable barriers from static terrain features (in other words, breaks the character-symmetry of the map topology -- claims, walls and keys do not make the topology truly asymmetrical; it merely adds barriers that can be overcome). I thought I made it clear that I don't intend to remove the travel system, but rather try and re-design it into something that doesn't have those flaws.