Per Jorb's request: Austin VS WB Discourse

[Austinh15]

I just want it known that this thread was not meant to be about misa and about whatever bay lumping my opinions in with factional bias. They did not respond to me and people who are still (rightfully) upset have taken this thread to a place that I told Jorb I wouldn't publicly go again. I wash my hands of this if Whatever Bay refuses to engage in the original topic.

[Vraatjuh]

The social ostracization is targeted towards the 20 year old by their own, older peers. As a 15 year old, you wouldn't be privy to it.

With the amount of total douchebags in the world, that rarely happens in these circles. That doesn't make all of them instant pedophiles though. But I think we are straying away from the point of this topic. I think we can mostly agree on what is morally right and wrong.

[Shitten_DuPants]

But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

I mean, maybe you’d be surprised at how many of the people who are disgusted by misa’s pedophilia also dislike all that stuff and are just less vocal because of how this community has been built. People who maybe assumed that actual, real-life molestation of minors would arouse ire even among the “edgelords”

Because shit flows downhill.

jorb/loftar added a brownshirt Nazi saluting not two years ago, and you can find even less covert “edginess” in their posts from years prior

If you want to talk about who’s been normalizing what in this community you should maybe start with those with the most power to decide such things. And how they’ve chosen to use that power.

[Vraatjuh]

But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

I mean, maybe you’d be surprised at how many of the people who are disgusted by misa’s pedophilia also dislike all that stuff and are just less vocal because of how this community has been built. People who maybe assumed that actual, real-life molestation of minors would arouse ire even among the “edgelords”

Because shit flows downhill.

jorb/loftar added a brownshirt Nazi saluting not two years ago, and you can find even less covert “edginess” in their posts from years prior

If you want to talk about who’s been normalizing what in this community you should maybe start with those with the most power to decide such things.

But this is not about them. We all know they won't do much on any case and are partially questionable as well here and there, and because they think we should be a self-solving entity. So it is either us community who make this place a slightly less edgy place, or we accept how it is now depending how much of a lost case we all think this is.

I know some of you think of the Haven community as a very nice community within your own bubble (not targetting you specifically), but boy can it be toxic for anyone outside that little bubble.

[Luno]

Yes, I would still be asking these questions. Because my point is not about wether he is wrong or not by our (and my) moral standards, because he obviously is both for 7 and 15 years old. But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING aBOUT

[Vraatjuh]

Yes, I would still be asking these questions. Because my point is not about wether he is wrong or not by our (and my) moral standards, because he obviously is both for 7 and 15 years old. But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING aBOUT

Sorry, I don't know if you expect a certain reply on this? What was not clear in my answering? Would you like me to write it out in caps for visibility?

[Shitten_DuPants]

But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

I mean, maybe you’d be surprised at how many of the people who are disgusted by misa’s pedophilia also dislike all that stuff and are just less vocal because of how this community has been built. People who maybe assumed that actual, real-life molestation of minors would arouse ire even among the “edgelords”

Because shit flows downhill.

jorb/loftar added a brownshirt Nazi saluting not two years ago, and you can find even less covert “edginess” in their posts from years prior

If you want to talk about who’s been normalizing what in this community you should maybe start with those with the most power to decide such things.

But this is not about them. We all know they won't do much on any case and are partially questionable as well here and there, and because they think we should be a self-solving entity. So it is either us community who make this place a slightly less edgy place, or we accept how it is now depending how much of a lost case we all think this is.

I know some of you think of the Haven community as a very nice community within your own bubble (not targetting you specifically), but boy can it be toxic for anyone outside that little bubble.

look I think you have a point and I wouldn’t necessarily characterize what you are doing as deflection or whataboutism or dousing cold water or whatever.

But the purpose of austin’s original thread, as I understand it, was the sort of community policing you seem to be advocating for here, which it seems you (and I hope everyone) would support in this specific case. Go ahead and make another thread about separate issues if you wish but I don’t see much for you to be arguing about here with other people who also despise pedophilia

I’d also like to note that, though they do it somewhat ironically, j/l are not the “gods” of the game’s community they style themselves as, just people participating in the space with vastly more power than any other. And there’s a difference between “allowing” and “encouraging” behavior; no matter what you think of either you can find examples of both, not just the former.

[Luno]

But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

Sorry, I don't know if you expect a certain reply on this? What was not clear in my answering? Would you like me to write it out in caps for visibility?

Maybe stop being retarded and actually say something of substance?
You say "other stuff in the past", you say "we", and you expect me to just know what the fuck are you talking about?
You are not talking to the CEO of haven and hearth community, i am not on either of the "official" discords, i am in fact muted in one of them. If you took a look at the original screenshots, you will see that i am blocked by the person who took those. And i use default client.

Perhaps you should stop listening to Misa's awful excuses and understand that you don't need to be in Snail's village to have a say in any of these "accusations".

And besides, just because people are not advocating against every bad they ever see, doesn't mean that they have normalized it. I for exemple have actually posted screenshots of the NPCs in Valhalla at the end of world 14(iirc) doing the nazi salute, but those post get deleted.

[Apocoreo]

PROPOSED COMMUNITY NOTE: This purposed "fact" is based on Discord and forum messages that can be feasibly dismissed as distasteful edgy jokes. No evidence beyond screenshots of that nature has ever been provided.

Obviously, this does not proof that he is NOT a pedophile, but...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proving_a_negative

I mean there very much was a thread where he quadrupled down. I dont think his discord comments sounded like a joke but since those comments don't count (fair), can we get that thread undeleted, as it is extremely relevant to this conversation? If I didnt believe it before that thread would have sealed the deal for me.

Why stop with this case?

I don't see anyone talking about stopping, just whataboutism that is derailing and distracting. I'll make a thread after this dies down if no one else does.

These people harassed me for months even before, this has nothing to do about moral concern. They have many pedo jokes in their client, a lot of racist shit and all edgy stuff in their discord, thats why we dont bother trying to argue anything cause theyre here for the lulz. Nobody that would care about this regard would act like this. Rawrz discord banned me and prohibit italking about it, which would be the only sane response if one really had any concern. These trolls couldnt control themselves and made another discord over this. Theres doxxing talk, racism and lots of shit over there. They even made memes with "Misa and 14yo novinha" and a cavehole. Its funny cause many of them would be arrested irl over the shit they do there.

So were you just joking? Considering the community note that has become very relevent

[Zampfeo]

But about the insane amount of hypocrisy involving this case. If we are so involved in this community and wanting to make it a safer space. Why stop with this case? Why have we normalized so much of the other stuff in the past.

I am not sure what it is like in your culture, but in the US, there is a huge difference when a child is victimized vs an adult. Calling another adult the N word might lose you some friends or get you beat, but any inclination of being a pedo will get you killed. It is not hypocrisy; it is just a whole different level of moral outrage. Guys like Gary Plauché are idolized in the US.

I have been in villages aligned with these "hypocrites" that silently distanced themselves from players who were too overtly racist and/or edgy, for what it's worth. A few worlds ago someone made a little too many N word runestones and was told to leave, in private.