Poaching

[BigCountry]

I liked Salem's crime and punishment system. Same game, sort of. Mechanically, at least.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

Just to follow up further I've done some additional reading of what Shaki posted and checked his wiki links.

I'm not against moving towards a crime system that more effectively creates conflict in principle. If there was a consensus that that sort of system would be better if we were confident that we could fix a few broken edge cases (the edge of world building sounds silly) I'd be okay with lobbying Jorb to take a look at it. I do think that we'd need a few companion changes, but I think most people agree we should probably do something to shake up the Haven faction/PvP dynamic. I imagine that we could do substantially better than just status quo on this.

If he heard from both of our sides that we both wanted something like this he'd probably be inclined.... But he'd also be too busy with whatever other priorities they have and may just forget or never get around to it.

Tldr: probably pointless to ask, but I'm very much open to lobbying for a change if there was a general consensus.

[Dawidio123]

I liked Salem's crime and punishment system. Same game, sort of. Mechanically, at least.

How, you just get put on stocks if you don't stay online 24/7 (through a script preferably due to server resets), and if you fail to do so and you get put in stock you lose real life months of progression and your char gets crippled.

As for more exploits to the 1v1s: murder alts, just inherit if you lose a duel and you are basically still at a level where you can murder hermits at 0 punishment. (i think that's the point right? it's not like it'll make normal pvp more lethal)
also how do you even imagine it, a valhalla instance opens and stays up until someone is dead or it's in world thing where others can come? a time limit? at what time does it happen? can i time my challenge to make someone wake up at 4am before going to work? What happens with multiple challenges, can i setup a challenge on myself to prevent other challenges? Can i setup a challenge minutes after the other challenge to bring myself out of the first challenge? Do they queue and you basically have to 1v1 10 times in a row? Can I just setup a fake challenge with some random alt everyday to make ppl wake up at night to fight 10 stat alt? What if the challenger is offline? Can this be used to escape from fights if you time it right? Can this be used to take someone out from a fight while you just run around them in shield up on some shitty char defending? I can keep going but i think that proves the point.

Like, that whole idea isn't even making it easier to kill people for the average player, the 4 guys who feel confident in their 1v1 ability will do it with some retarded 1v1 deck that's cancer to fight against, for everyone else uhh, how confident are you in 1v1ing someone who already managed to kill you and being in a closed off area that lets you die if you get KOd It's basically just ganking off scents but more risky and a lot less effort (maybe, depends how you set it up tbh). And then it needs like 20 edgecases addressed.

If you want to lobby for something why not take the low-hanging fruit, make tracking less retarded bcs of how easy it is to get int on a char compared to perc. Why does it always have to be this next big new system that only needs 15 bandaids to work right :whyy:
If you want crime to be more punishable you should aim to make ganking easier instead of finding funni alternatives, main issue of ganking: it's a full time job and they get reinforced in minutes while haven combat doesn't support burst damage against someone who is running, issue with fixing those two is contradiction if you fuck travel it's harder to gank so even less ppl are willing to do it but it's also harder to get reinforcements so if you managed to catch someone offguard they are a lot more fucked, if you make it easier to gank the opposite happens. Both are shit for different groups of ppl. There is no solution. Either convert haven into fps survival pvp shooter like rust or make it a farmville clone, it's over.

[Fostik]

Незаконна добич диких тварин чи рослин — як-то риба, дичина, вирубка або збір рослин.

А ти, покидьок, улавлюєш суть — це і є браконьєрство!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVp7JyI6Krg

[LemonNades]

Just to follow up further I've done some additional reading of what Shaki posted and checked his wiki links.

I'm not against moving towards a crime system that more effectively creates conflict in principle. If there was a consensus that that sort of system would be better if we were confident that we could fix a few broken edge cases (the edge of world building sounds silly) I'd be okay with lobbying Jorb to take a look at it. I do think that we'd need a few companion changes, but I think most people agree we should probably do something to shake up the Haven faction/PvP dynamic. I imagine that we could do substantially better than just status quo on this.

If he heard from both of our sides that we both wanted something like this he'd probably be inclined.... But he'd also be too busy with whatever other priorities they have and may just forget or never get around to it.

Tldr: probably pointless to ask, but I'm very much open to lobbying for a change if there was a general consensus.

There is no perfect answer but I have thought of ways to deal with this, imperfect as they may be and I want to see the flaws, but here is what I have thought of for the past few worlds.

1. There should be skill costing 25k LP called Peace Maker/Graceful Hermit or whatever, that makes it so if you get attacked you immediately go into a "surrender mode", 1HHP and any player can loot you for 1 minuet, before you tp away, once at your HF you must wait another 10 minuets before you can get up (you do not regen any hp during this time, but you may log out). Also by picking this skill you are unable to purchase any hostile/law breaking skills, no rage, trespass, ect. This perk only protects you from murder, your claim, plali, or anything else claimable still and can be raided/destroyed. Still can be boat bashed and drowned/animal lured to death and so on.

2. If you kill a player that does not have this skill, isnt in blood rage or a criminal or any player that also has any amount of vile points, there would be repercussions and parameters that add a vile point to your character. The conditions are met when you kill a player that is neither of three things that make you ineligible; has been alive for more then seven days, has over 100k LP (spent or stored) and has 300-500 stats in any combination (you need all of these not just one). Once a player like this is killed, you gain one of these vile points. When you have over 5 of these nidbanes get stronger 2.5x your stats, again just like normal, your village mates can help you out, so still not super bad. At 10 they are 5x your stats, they can no longer be aggro'd by other players (even in transit) and when it does get to you it traps you in where ever you are, cant move down stairs/ladder/enter boats/ride horses/doors/gates ect, it has phasing and goes through walls/furniture/anything. If it kills you, it steals your whole body and brings it back to the alter, and you dont get the quest telling you where your bodies at if you decide to inherit. At 25+ its 10x and all the things above and you can not inherit your next hearthling's points only your hf. Defeating any nidbain that is targeting you will not reduce any vile points.

3.Have Lawbringer credo/skill, having this skill does not disable criminal acts but you cant use murderous rage. However if you you have rage and attack a person with no vile points they will always go down to 1HHP, and can loot them as normal, if they have any vile points you can keep attacking them, and kill them if you so choose. As stated above killing a player with any vile points will not award you with vile points. As a bonus you will get a defensive maneuver called Justice, this move gives you 5% extra grievous damage and 1% armor pen per point of vile the targeted player has and has a block weight of 100% MC, in addition to 5% per vile point. You also gain the ability to see scents at half of your per*exp rounded up, and scents you collect last twice as long.

4. During meteor fights, there will be a player login/pop up that occurs when its landed, during that time the fate of justice will be broken, for 24 hours the land will be shaken and any killings will not award vile points. So maybe stay inside or take the day off. Also when you enter a dungeon you also lose this protection, as you are no longer in the domain of the hearth.(Should probably make it so people can't body block dungeons entrances, maybe there's an area around it that also forgoes the awarding of vile points.) No scents will be dropped during this time either.

Most likely nothing like this will ever be implemented, but its just food for thought, and if you have any critiques or ideas let me know. I wonder if this seems okayish enough or if theres mechanics that I'm missing on.

[_Scipio]

He set up in my back yard, poached my land, and took localized resources. We were in competition, and he lost. The game is intended to have a real sense of danger and adventure to it. Suggestions to change or punish this kind of play aren’t needed, the mechanics worked as intended, and the right outcome followed.

[LemonNades]

I think that is also fair to say, I have killed and been killed, as I assume you have as well. This game teaches you a hard lesson on life and death, and learning to over come weakness, and foolish decisions, will make you a stronger player. Though some people do not have the will to face this hardship. That's why I said I doubt anything like my idea will ever be implemented, but I do feel there should be some "karma system", it doesn't have to be permanent, where you can never go back down to neutral or good or either way. Saying that he was in your area, fair, his death was justice in your eyes, and I bet he didn't even have the requirements to net you any type of point either, he learned (or should have) to not build next to or near a stronger player, not to think your secure just because you place down a pali, that death is only a small blip in the grand scale of things. Yet I do also feel that the mass random killings are a bit much, why would they have nid banes that do almost nothing if they didn't intend for a kind of justice mechanic. I think the surrender mechanic is good, but I do see some flaws with it as well, like in your case, it would be hard to knock down the claim, so maybe it allows you the right to destroy it via hand bash, no siege/thingpeace broken, for a period of time. These are just thoughts, and again probably never going to happen.

[animary]

"He set up in my back yard, poached my land, and took localized resources. We were in competition, and he lost. The game is intended to have a real sense of danger and adventure to it. Suggestions to change or punish this kind of play aren’t needed, the mechanics worked as intended, and the right outcome followed."

This is an entirely different scenario from what many of us are taking exception to. Perhaps this killing was an extreme solution, but the provocation was there. (I've often seen the ruins of a farm or small village with a runestone standing there, "You were warned. Don't build here again."

But many deplore the rampant, unjustified killing of others. The "I love to hunt sprucecaps" attitude. To me it is a sick mentality that derives "fun" from ruining the game for others. And this reputation deters many from even trying this game. Killing someone who has done something to deserve it might be justified; killing someone jsut because they are there can never be.

[Halbertz]

To me it is a sick mentality that derives "fun" from ruining the game for others. And this reputation deters many from even trying this game. Killing someone who has done something to deserve it might be justified; killing someone jsut because they are there can never be.

Cope + seethe, no one cares, git gud

[MightySheep]

I love how they always ask "why?" In a PvP game...

Then u say some random shit like poaching and they read rly deeply into it

Sheep has bragged about camping doors in Rust for over 12 hours to get a kill. Not able to get me in Haven as easily, I suppose, lol

Bro ofcourse you can't be got if you base your entire playstyle on running/hiding. You straight up abandoned your main village (after recruiting army of new players) to hide on south continent then I visited your half build new village literally 1 time and with zero hesitation you abandoned the new village on the spot. That is wild. Not sure you can even call it playing the game at that point when you living like Anne Frank all world.