Reduce Number-crunching in Attribute Levelling

[Shask]

For new players the FEP system is very complicated and detailed and if somebody really didn't do their research, they could gimp their character. For example I have only really eaten fish, and my intelligence has therefore shot up very high, whilst all my other attributes are really low. This now makes it quite difficult for me to get my other attributes up, as the FEP needed for a level is based on your highest attribute. The only thing that stopped me and made me aware of the situation was an experienced friend giving me advice..

I propose that the game mechanics would be better if the FEP needed to advance, e.g. agility, is based on agility only, not the highest attribute.

Whether you have 100000000 STR or 10 STR, the increase from 10 to 11 agility, for example, should always be the same.

[Wirt]

I like the FEP system we have now. It greatly encourages generalisation both in your character abilities and at least a part of gameplay, that part being finding food. Removing that would only make growing overspecialised alts easier and remove a significant layer of depth that's making H&H interesting for a great deal of players.

If I was to suggest any change, I'd go for basing FEP needed not only off your highest stat, but also the difference between your highest and lowest stats, so a character with all stats except one at 100 and one at 50 would require more FEP to increase any stat than a character with all stats at 100. Furthering the "generalise, don't specialise" mindset of the game even more. Than again, just me, and just because I like tweaking systems.

[Shask]

I like the FEP system we have now. It greatly encourages generalisation both in your character abilities and at least a part of gameplay, that part being finding food. Removing that would only make growing overspecialised alts easier and remove a significant layer of depth that's making H&H interesting for a great deal of players.

If I was to suggest any change, I'd go for basing FEP needed not only off your highest stat, but also the difference between your highest and lowest stats, so a character with all stats except one at 100 and one at 50 would require more FEP to increase any stat than a character with all stats at 100. Furthering the "generalise, don't specialise" mindset of the game even more. Than again, just me, and just because I like tweaking systems.

Hm, what's wrong with specialising though? I agree that your way would be better than the current system (like an average of your attributes, rather than just the highest, right?).

[Wirt]

Hm, what's wrong with specialising though? I agree that your way would be better than the current system (like an average of your attributes, rather than just the highest, right?).

Personal preference, mostly. A lot of games these days say something along the lines of "You can swing a sword. No magic, no shooting, just swing your sword. But you're good at swinging swords!" - H&H is pretty much the total opposite of this: not only it's relatively peaceful, you're supposed to be able to do a lot of things by yourself. You can only really specialise if there's enough people with you to evenly divide jobs - it's somewhat realistic and I like it this way.

The basic system I'm talking about goes more or less like this, numbers very base, no complex formulae to work with:
First, it looks at your highest stat and assigns you a basic number of FEP's you must gather to get a raise. For the sake of simplicity, let's say it's 1 FEP per level. Than, it looks at your lowest stat and compares it to the highest one. For every 1% that it's lower, it adds 1% to your target FEP number. Example: your highest stat is 100, lowest is 50, the rest are naturally somewhere between these two. The game says you need 100 FEP to raise any attribute, than does the comparison: 50 is exactly 50% less than 100, so it increases your FEP target to 150.
In this scenario, there should also be a "dead zone" (Say, within 10%) in which you need fewer FEP to get a raise as a sort of reward for having an extraordinarily balanced diet.

[rye130]

Hm, what's wrong with specialising though? I agree that your way would be better than the current system (like an average of your attributes, rather than just the highest, right?).

Personal preference, mostly. A lot of games these days say something along the lines of "You can swing a sword. No magic, no shooting, just swing your sword. But you're good at swinging swords!" - H&H is pretty much the total opposite of this: not only it's relatively peaceful, you're supposed to be able to do a lot of things by yourself. You can only really specialise if there's enough people with you to evenly divide jobs - it's somewhat realistic and I like it this way.

The basic system I'm talking about goes more or less like this, numbers very base, no complex formulae to work with:
First, it looks at your highest stat and assigns you a basic number of FEP's you must gather to get a raise. For the sake of simplicity, let's say it's 1 FEP per level. Than, it looks at your lowest stat and compares it to the highest one. For every 1% that it's lower, it adds 1% to your target FEP number. Example: your highest stat is 100, lowest is 50, the rest are naturally somewhere between these two. The game says you need 100 FEP to raise any attribute, than does the comparison: 50 is exactly 50% less than 100, so it increases your FEP target to 150.
In this scenario, there should also be a "dead zone" (Say, within 10%) in which you need fewer FEP to get a raise as a sort of reward for having an extraordinarily balanced diet.

What you're suggesting will discourage specializing which very much needs to be encouraged. There's no point in pushing for a system that will make generalizing your stats more viable then specializing because that will discourage trade (everyone will basically have the same build and make all their own stuff) and really just be an annoying system to deal with.

The current system is fine, it allows you to specialize if you choose, but also makes it hard for you to change what you are specializing in which is not a bad thing at all. There are some minor setbacks with the system, such as new players messing up their stats, but its not like they will get the stats high enough for it to make that much of a difference. An extra 5 FEP's needed to raise a stat isn't really that much, and you'll have your stats balanced in no time.

[Wirt]

What you're suggesting will discourage specializing which very much needs to be encouraged. There's no point in pushing for a system that will make generalizing your stats more viable then specializing because that will discourage trade (everyone will basically have the same build and make all their own stuff) and really just be an annoying system to deal with.

Fair point, but the discussion boils down to personal preference, anyway, so I see no reason to discuss it further.

In closing, I'll note that I believe specialisation of any kind should come from skills, not stats: I've always disliked the charisma-as-dumpstat character type (It's there in every game, even ones without charisma). Stats should assist in it, but not take prevalence.

[SpidersEverywhere]

I think the current system is pretty good, though the feeling of being penalized for raising your highest stat might be a little harsh. If any change were made, perhaps weighting attribute gain a bit towards lower stats - so for example if your CON was much higher than your STR, then if you ate a whole bar worth of pumpkin you'd have a somewhat higher chance of getting a point of STR than CON. I'm not convinced a change is needed though.

[DatOneGuy]

OP this has been suggested several times and shot down.

Why? If it's based only on the stat you're doing then there is no actual 'problem' in doing it all, which breaks something big now. Specializing kills your character, it's supposed to. You shouldn't be able to get 1,000 AGI and then turn around and level 10 STr to 1,000 like you never raised your AGI that high.

If anything it just gives higher levl characters that much faster of a time to build up than the newbies and makes the divide terrible.

[Shask]

OP this has been suggested several times and shot down.

Why? If it's based only on the stat you're doing then there is no actual 'problem' in doing it all, which breaks something big now. Specializing kills your character, it's supposed to. You shouldn't be able to get 1,000 AGI and then turn around and level 10 STr to 1,000 like you never raised your AGI that high.

If anything it just gives higher levl characters that much faster of a time to build up than the newbies and makes the divide terrible.

There will, by very definition, always be a divide between higher level characters and newbies...

I've gained a lot more knowledge about the game but I still believe in this. Specialisation shouldn't be discouraged so harshly - as somebody previously mentioned, specialisation encourages village and communal play, and trade.

Let's say I make a new character. The only thing I like doing is pottery. I just love it. I make pots, and trade these for a +DEX food. This is a cycle where I end up getting very, very good at pottery. My attributes are all 10, except DEX, which is 400.

One day I decide I want to try something new. So I try hunting with a sling. However, to get my perception from 10 to 11, requires 400 FEP. That would just be quite ridiculous, no?

[DeadlyPencil]

it should be kept the way it is. if people are going to make brick bashers, fine, go ahead and do that. but it should require a sacrifice on their part. The sacrific being that their character can basically only bash brick and cant do anything else. the game its trying to promote a balanced diet. thats why you get a fep reduction for each type of food you eat.