ancestors should only request items that you have discovered

[cloakblade]

well, for starters, you would have to discover a bone, branch, stone, board, string, and dream to even make a shrine. plus you need to get enough LP for ancestral worship, bare minimum of a few discoveries. i think you might still be able to have someone else make the construction sign and put the material in and have the shrine be owned by an alt who just hit build, but imo that should be solved in the same way that the issue was for claim stakes.

furthermore, the crop prayer didn't give seeds, it raised the q to your ancestor's farming skill, and has been removed since the first days of world 4 iirc.

and finally, praying for nuggets would add that nugget to your list of available items to sacrifice.

hmm, limit numen to total number of items unlocked, maybe? or some other way?

and this should prevent any exploit like that, imo

also, discovering something would unlock any item that can be made with it, provided other prerequisite discoveries were made as well. for example: stone axe wouldn't be an option unless you discovered branches and stone, but fishing pole would show up if you discover branches.

I think I heard about the farming wish being exploited but I thought they fixed it by capping the q of the seed by your numen like they do with nuggets.

You would feed all the items to the alt (which I will now refer to as the priest as he will have no other purpose but to pray). Though if you have to have Ancestral Worship then you need to grind 900 LP you can discover only things that you can guarantee are q10 (there are plenty). Then after you get there +1 Tradition. If you have someone else build a shrine for the priest he won't have to do thing like discover rarer items like bones or items that will be harder to get q10 like boards.

Now lets have fun with numbers:

Then lets assume the following: The priest gets 1.4 numen per sacrifice (see bottom); The priest discovers 15 items (I won't list them); and that the priest gets each nugget from wishing back to back. So there are 18 items in the pool, 1 out of 6 are a nugget. The priest would have to get all three nuggets as his desired items from his ancestors to have to forfeit it. I apologize but I'm tired and don't have the energy to crunch the numbers to find out the exact numbers but considering that the priest get 0 numen 1/6 of the time and has to forfeit less than less than 2% of the time (see bottom) I think that you can hit a positive return off 1.4 pretty quickly allowing for nuggets day one, and bars soon after (65 clay needed), and the return only gets better. It takes 4 days (I'll link my post at the bottom) to become full tradition at which point its 3 numen for each sacrifice.

Well that was fun. And I do like the idea you'd have to either up the cost to 15 for Prayer of the Forge, limit the number of wishes per day or some other form of limiter. The increase of the Prayer's cost might also become null in the mid-game with the same idea except you learn nothing but crops and are feed them, though this can be hurt by having a minimum list of items.

1.4 = 1 + (2 (the difference from neutral to full tradition) / 5 (total clicks between neutral and full))
2% = (3/18) * (2/18) * (1/18), assuming that each time something is picked it is removed from the pool of candidates
4 days link: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16494&p=189337&hilit=tradition#p189390

[sabinati]

or you could go find a cave and mine it and have a chest full of metal bars day 1? iono

seed prayer, as i understand it, is gone completely, and the nugget prayer q is softcapped by numen iirc. basically all of the prayers are shit, except for the einherjaspekt which is overpowered. the goal here is actually to make numen more accessible, used more often, and maybe we can all pray for some more interesting and useful prayers.

[EnderWiggin]

and the nugget prayer q is softcapped by numen iirc.

IIRC, this was at start. Then changed to Q = numen, softcapped by skills of ancestors.

[sabinati]

yeah, i think you're right, actually. all i know is that they made it so you couldn't get absurd quality.

[cloakblade]

I do agree that numen should be a lot more useful and accessible. I just wanted to monkey with those number sense I thought about it last world though doing any form of mass prayer is worthless in the current prayer system's implementation.

[xato13]

I believe that prayers should atleast be more accessible.
Perhaps limit the sacrificial items to things that don't need metals or aren't high-end items.
But instead keep a large variaty of items(perhaps some foragable curiosities), that demands you to go out and explore and gather stuff from large areas instead.

Now then the server is down, it reminds me of how stabile the server has been lately and i want to thank jorb and loftar for doing such a great job:)

[pyrale]

Now then the server is down, it reminds me of how stabile the server has been lately and i want to thank jorb and loftar for doing such a great job:)

Quite true. There are still freezes now and then but it's incredibly better than it used to be in W4.