Combat Caps

[Kaios]

Branching off from the "Developer Thoughts on PvP" thread because I think this deserves its own.

First off, I'd just like to state how much I love and appreciate this new LP system. It's done wonders to help keep the macroing maniacs and grind junkies (somewhat for this one) at bay and for that I am grateful. It's added several new aspects to the game that I thoroughly enjoy and I think with a little work the system can soon be perfected!

Anyways, the purpose of this thread is to point out that now that everything related to crafting (farming, cooking, smithing, etc.) has some sort of cap (read: quality raising process slowed down greatly) in place to keep you from needing to raise these skills insanely high, but combat skills have been left unaltered in any manner meaning that they will be, and are, raised the most.

With this new system it is rather easy to create one, two, three or more alts and give them curiosities if you have the means available, and you can choose to raise their skills accordingly. I know with the old system and macroing that this was still easily possible, and the new system remedies a little better, but I still dislike this very much. Combat alts are easy to create and even easier to let go of when the time comes. Eventually they will be abundant and it will suck.

Once a player has reached a point in one of his crafting skills where he no longer needs to raise it at that time, the rest of his LP starts going in to combat. If I'm not mistaken, there are already MANY players reaching and exceeding 300 in a combat skill, and possibly even 400 if I'm not mistaken. This sucks! Battles will hardly ever be based on skill and strategy, but rather an arms race to get the most players with the highest attack skills possible. The agility feature that was implemented awhile ago does help somewhat with this but it has very little effect when eventually you could be facing several players with 600 or more in melee or unarmed.

I truly believe that a system needs to be implemented that puts a soft cap on combat skills just as is now with the crafting aspect of the game.

I quote this idea as my example of a great way this could be achieved:

Generally, I think that various pieces of equipment should all have their UA and/or Melee rating, and your total cap is determined by simple addition of all your gear's ratings. That would open room for a lot more strategy in equipment selection, rather than everyone wearing steel plate and dragon helm in a developed world. Oh, and thanes should just boost your cap rather than boost your actual melee, since it'd be too easy to make a competitive combat character otherwise (which would in turn foster griefing).

Thanks for reading and I hope I'm not alone with this opinion!

Edit:

It's not my idea per se, but rather an idea already voiced by several people on past occasions. I am merely giving it a bit of a bump because I think it is relevant now more than ever.

Anyways to answer your question, the way I see this being accomplished via equipment rating would be exactly what Potjeh's idea suggests. The way I understood it, you can still raise a combat skill as high as you like, but the equipment you're using determines how much of that skill you are actually able to utilize. Obviously personal beliefs should also play a role in this cap. Each piece of equipment you wear, armor and weapons alike (unarmed has knuckles now, fyi), increases the cap at which you can utilize your actual skill.

For example: You have 100 melee. (All equipment at Q10) Bronze sword has a rating of 10, Bronze plate has a rating of 30, Bronze Helm has a rating of 15. In total that is a melee rating of 55. This doesn't mean it adds 55 melee, but rather even though your melee is at 100, when actually in battle it will act as if your melee is only 55.

I think this system would be both enjoyable and a refreshing change to combat.

[cobaltjones]

I think it's generally accepted among regular players that equipment quality should have SOME sort of cap effect on combat skills (Unarmed/Melee), yes.

+1

[Niacide]

Firstly I like to say that your idea is pretty good, everything should have an external 'capping' mechanism.


Currently, pretty much everything done be hand has no equipment based softcap, the capping is done by the materials used.

This is not a problem for melee because you use a weapon, not your hands, so the capping could easily be implemented.


However this is an issue for UC, becasue you do use your hands, how do you plan on capping that?
You can't make it Armour based, all the Super Fighters would just fight naked
and you can not make it based on a your weapon, because you don't need one to attack.

[ewlol]

This is a good idea. The expense at which armor of HQ and weapons of HQ are made is so high that it would be difficult to mass produce without a wealth of resources of time. I am speaking about large factions, those that must gear large masses of warriors with good equipment.

[Kaios]

Firstly I like to say that your idea is pretty good, everything should have an external 'capping' mechanism.

It's not my idea per se, but rather an idea already voiced by several people on past occasions. I am merely giving it a bit of a bump because I think it is relevant now more than ever.

Anyways to answer your question, the way I see this being accomplished via equipment rating would be exactly what Potjeh's idea suggests. The way I understood it, you can still raise a combat skill as high as you like, but the equipment you're using determines how much of that skill you are actually able to utilize. Obviously personal beliefs should also play a role in this cap. Each piece of equipment you wear, armor and weapons alike (unarmed has knuckles now, fyi), increases the cap at which you can utilize your actual skill.

For example: You have 100 melee. (All equipment at Q10) Bronze sword has a rating of 10, Bronze plate has a rating of 30, Bronze Helm has a rating of 15. In total that is a melee rating of 55. This doesn't mean it adds 55 melee, but rather even though your melee is at 100, when actually in battle it will act as if your melee is only 55.

I think this system would be both enjoyable and a refreshing change to combat.

[cobaltjones]

...

But what if you don't wear any armor at all? (as proposed by Niacide)

Surely a naked person with 500UA wouldn't be capped down to 0UA? That doesn't make any sense.

[Kaios]

That is just how I interpreted it. Obviously with such a system in place no one would raise their unarmed to 500 unless their equipment could match it. The idea has its flaws and is of course completely subject to change than how I have written it. Any ideas or suggestions to make it a working system are welcome!

[TeckXKnight]

+1, I agree that lack of softcaps leads to truly outrageous things, as we got to see with Jewelry in w3. When everything else was more or less capped in the low 100s, you could get Jewelry into the thousands.

[bitza]

alternately (or in conjunction with the above?), having base attributes come into play more into combat would be a good solution as well, as the need for feeding warriors increases, so will the time investment into getting them combat ready, and by extension the level of "attachment" someone has towards their combat char. FEPs aren't difficult to grind, but more so than curios, and the process from producing food to feeding in its entirety isn't something that can be easily automated

[Flyffywambler]

What if there was a softcap to UA by part of your agility and strenght,
and to melee by part of your strenght and constitution?

Code: Select all

Example: if your UA > sqrt(AGI*STR)/4, then your actual UA is sqrt(UA*(sqrt(AGI*STR)/4)

and: if your melee > sqrt(STR*CON)/4, then your actual melee skill is sqrt(ME*(sqrt(STR*CON)/4)

The numbers are just for the example, I'm sure devs could find the right numbers for balance there.

Added to that, I would suggest that all metal armor gets a heavier AGI penalty, to incur penalty to UA use, and give it a slight penalty to strenght as well (you are carrying more weight with it)
No armor would also still be a viable chocie this way, both for UA and ME