Barter Stand Improvements

Thoughts on the further development of Haven & Hearth? Feel free to opine!

Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby Jackard » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:58 pm

Potjeh wrote:People wouldn't take change, instead they might accumulate it on their account to buy some item. And then the item gets stolen, and bam I owe them money.

Your insistence on using a hated mechanic is just as dumb as that scenario and I'm reluctant to see you trash this thread like you did the last one.

Potjeh wrote:Look, I know it's funny to someone coming from a credit card culture, but I like my trades clean and closed. I never pay in advance or buy on credit IRL

Neither do I..?

Potjeh wrote:Also, fuck editing replies into posts made before the post that you're replying to.

what a tangled web we weave
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby Potjeh » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:00 pm

No, what's dumb is being unable to control your own debt. Look, I know it's funny to someone coming from a credit card culture, but I like my trades clean and closed. I never pay in advance or buy on credit IRL, and I want the same in the game. Debts are shackles, you can't be a free man if you owe people money.

I'm reluctant to see you trash this thread like you did the last one.

Then stop arguing. We can just agree to disagree, you know, and let the devs do it as they want.

Also, fuck editing replies into posts made before the post that you're replying to.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby cloakblade » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:22 pm

I have to agree with Potjeh that I would prefer not to have to not be able to control my own debt.

But, I think it matters how you want to use it. If you set it out next to your own hermit brickwalled area then yes debt would suck. If you use it only for inter-village trading in a trade area, then the only time you owning someone money for something being stolen is when a raid happens and it really doesn't matter then.

The one note worthy thing is that if you just use barter stands for smaller items (food and curios) then the problem becomes almost moot because you aren't storing up credit with anyone. I think that is fair and to leave selling merc robes to forum trading as they will have to be for multiple inventories worth of stuff.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby cobaltjones » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:38 am

Bump.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby DatOneGuy » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:04 am

Why are you guys even delving so deep as to think out problems like that?

Should be very simple:
You can tie some sort of 'point' to stands, how this is tied to the stands is the part I won't understand as undoubtedly you may want to have a whole marketplace with many different stands using the same 'points', but you don't want anyone else imitating them.

Anything that doesn't offer these is pointless to think about as no one will use a system where an outsider can grant himself 999999999 points and go to hell on your marketplace. They will instead use the forums, and no one will give a shit about the ingame system.

What we need is a way to set some code for your barter stand, and be able to have separate barter stand 'codes' per character, and this 'code' represents the ability to open a shop using that sort of 'point'. A few things I see that would need to happen from here:
1)People should be able to group or trade their points, if your village often trades at these stands, one has 20 Points, another 280 points and you want to buy something worth 300 Points, you should be able to trade these points 'outside of' stands.
2)There should be one way of handling stands, not this separation of barter and vending, if anything vending needs to go ByeBye and coins need to be better incorporated into Barter, it's ugly as is. If there should be any separation it should be Barter v Points
3)Ability for originator of the 'point' system to revoke rights to anyone he gave rights to.
4)Rights cannot be passed down from person->person->person, only the originator or a few he selected can pass it down farther.

Overall the trading and economics need to be better fleshed out like this, instead of just "HEY DO SOME TRADIN YALL!", with that said, do it right the first time and get a system that's more open like Jackard's Village system, but relevant to markets/stands.

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In Potjeh's example of debt and such, people shouldn't even be doing that, you should understand that if the whole market fails your points are useless, so don't hold on to them forever, sure you may be holding out for that item, but that's to be expected, and you don't 'owe' that guy anything by someone else buying it, it's just the way the market goes. If you pinch pennies and save up 300 Points for a Ranger's Cape q150 and some other guy buys it first, what do you expect? It's not like we can magically appease both parties with a single cape. That guy will get another chance at spending his money, if he wants it to be held for him he can request that, but that's something outside of the scope of the system. If you mean that you should be able to have negative points (which I doubt because it's silly), it'd be pointless as anyone could make alts and buy out whole markets.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby GoodGirl » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:31 am

Jackard wrote:bugs:

    1. many items cannot be set as a price. ex. foods and most new items (coins, gauze, hempbuds, curios, sausages, mussels...)
    2. the price you set remains even after removing goods

I tried to take over a barter stand that suffered from bug #2. As far as I can tell, this bug also makes it impossible to take over the stand. That or it breaks the stand completely. Either way, I can't add items into it, even though it is on my claim.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby MagicManICT » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:57 am

GoodGirl wrote:I tried to take over a barter stand that suffered from bug #2. As far as I can tell, this bug also makes it impossible to take over the stand. That or it breaks the stand completely. Either way, I can't add items into it, even though it is on my claim.


That's intentional. There's a rule for who "owns" the stand once it is built. I can never remember the exact rules for ownership, how items are priced, etc. The rules are posted around somewhere, though.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby GoodGirl » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:04 am

MagicManICT wrote:
GoodGirl wrote:I tried to take over a barter stand that suffered from bug #2. As far as I can tell, this bug also makes it impossible to take over the stand. That or it breaks the stand completely. Either way, I can't add items into it, even though it is on my claim.


That's intentional. There's a rule for who "owns" the stand once it is built. I can never remember the exact rules for ownership, how items are priced, etc. The rules are posted around somewhere, though.

As far as I understand, stand ownership is determined by who put the items in. When the stand is emptied of items, no one has ownership of it, and the next person to put in items becomes the new owner.

If the stand is on unclaimed ground or on your personal or village claim, you can take everything out of the stand without paying for it, then put in new items to gain ownership of the stand. When it is bugged so that the price is still there, this is not possible.
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Re: Barter Stand Improvements

Postby Jackard » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:37 am

GoodGirl wrote:I tried to take over a barter stand that suffered from bug #2. As far as I can tell, this bug also makes it impossible to take over the stand. That or it breaks the stand completely. Either way, I can't add items into it, even though it is on my claim.

good to know
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