Reeds and You

[Truth0]

My brilliant idea of the day is reeds. Yes, reeds. Why reeds, though? Well, for a variety of reasons.

I've always loved that the game featured a variety of terrain types, but many of them serve little purpose. It's fun that swamps received dragonflies, and I've always loved the cattails (and other "fluff" such as ferns) as well as grassy sprays across swamps, but they could use some more love! My idea and suggestion is to add reeds, the order of plant home to swamps, rivers, and general wet places the world over. They would be randomly generated just like the other foragables. Besides looking sexy-awesome, however, what else could they do?

Reeds have traditionally been used for a variety of purposes. As pertains to the game in my mind, reeds could be used in the production of parchment/paper, or, specifically the well-known "paper" made from a certain type of reeds: papyrus. Hides are useful for many things, but are they really worth using for parchment? I do not think hides should be removed from that function, however I believe reed parchment (or papyrus if you'd prefer it to be) could be a cheaper and relatively easier to find alternative (which would decay faster, if relevant). It would give parchment access to newbies, but also just make parchment a more common and useful item in order to leave notes for others, or anything else you can think of. This, in my mind, would be its primary use.

In addition to the above, reeds, if desired, could be used for roofing (as an alternative to pine boughs) as "thatch," a doormat, furniture I suppose, food (the roots) if you really wanted (or in a recipe), some baskets, an ingredient to bricks and adobe (although that's not advised due to bricks not needing plant fiber in H&H), as an alternative to plant fiber (a cheap alternative as it doesn't need to be grown yet you cannot control its quality because it's a foragable, but perhaps it would need to be tweaked as to not make certain items like clothes and the herbalist table too easy to access as a newbie, although then again, as stated, its quality would, in most cases, be quite low), a blowgun as I've seen asked for at least once in the past, a flute/recorder/etc (been plenty of instrument suggestions, I know), or in the use of books (yet another multi-time suggestion item). I suppose you could make an old school Egyptian reed boat, too (or a mini one as a curiosity or decoration).

These are the reasons why I think reeds would be a neat addition to H&H. World flavor and additional items to make are always in demand!


Edit: I should mention that hemp can do nearly all that stuff as well. I think reeds would be cool because of its swamp and riverside habitat, but hemp should also be considered, at least, as an alternative to hide parchment.

[Truth0]

To expand on the idea for giggles, and I suppose to save the devs five minutes' of Googling, reeds simply need to be harvested, shaved, cut into strips, put crosswise on top of one another, and pressure applied until they dry out. That's the basic way to make crappy but usable "paper." A more complex process is used for legit reed paper, but it's not so complex as to be too much of a hassle to put into the game. With a bit of thought and creativity, it shouldn't require any additional "build" items.

As for hemp, it needs to be harvested, soaked, cooked, mixed, set, and dried. Again, a very simplified explanation, but again it shows that it's not horribly complex.

Both very viable!

[ImAwesome]

reeds could be used for paper, if you make something from plants/cellulose(such as papyrus or paper) its not parchment...and yea I have a ton of dried hides(mostly useless q10 rabbit sheep and cow) that don't really have a use other than piling up in cupboards so I don't think anyone who actually has a handle on working with animals(or owns a sling) needs a 2nd option. as there are so many other great things that this game needs and this is just alot of work(several new items that have to coded and need images, then you'd need a world reset to add them) to help out the lazy I have to say no, I don't like this idea.

besides paper your other reasons for adding reeds would be to make things that were suggested and have already gotten a no. the only reason I'd see to add them at all would be earlier herbalist tables. as it is now plant lore is useless, it only gives the option to make herbalist tables. thats an option that could be added to farming as you have to farm to get plant fibers before you can use them to make a herbalist table. I see no other reason for such an item to be added, and even if it were added its far easier to forage a 20-30 item than it is to grow 1, meaning that you've now made farming for quality useless as everyone will forage plant fiber instead, so again I'll have to say no I don't like this idea.

[Truth0]

A few things.

1) Any suggestion requires new code, and any item idea obviously needs new art. What's wrong with that? It's expected. If that's a turn off, then the game should never have changed from its first incarnation
2) You don't need a world reset to add in a new item. If you do, then something is wrong
3) How would foraging a plant fiber make farming useless? As any forager knows, and as I stated in my post, the vast majority of all reeds would be of low quality like all other foragables. If that's not enough, then, as I also suggested, it could be differentiated from other plant fiber and obviously be given a different name, so it could not be used to obtain a herbalist table (and a couple other things) too soon. Did you read my post behind the first paragraph?

Your only valid argument is that it's not difficult, after playing for a long time, to have a large number of pelts sitting around for nothing else than perhaps parchment due to overabundance of animals and hunting. I stated in my post that it would give written message access to newbies and novices, which does not reward them too soon since it's not a tool, just paper. Including reeds for only that purpose seems a bit unnecessary, but then again there are many items in the game that only serve a single function. Furthermore, I suggested multiple uses for them.

All I ask is that the idea be seen as valid, possibly acceptable, and a future possibility. People who critique in this section so often think that when someone suggests something they demand it now. It is a very poor argument to deny an idea, especially a good one, just because it doesn't seem important enough to be included immediately.

[ImAwesome]

1 you have several things that need to be coded that offer no benefit while there are tons of other things that would be great and it takes away from time that could be spent on those

2 to add a new item you have reset alot of crap, if it can be done without a complete world reset its a suprise to me

3 I said farming for quality, not farming. you find a good foraging node you can get things up to the soil quality of that area with no work, while farming means you have to first find seeds then depending on your farming/soil quality grind them up to that quality(with a beehive flax takes a day and hemp takes 18 hours). as I also said in my post, the only reason I'd even want it would be for the herbalist table as any other use is basicly useless as there are already parchments in game...

my arguement isn't that its not difficult, but that its so easy an alternative is completely useless. if you don't want to make parchment early on use a runestone, thats why we have the option. if you really wanted another option clay tablets would have been a better suggestion as it would use items already in game too craft.

if your idea were valid I'd say it was, but there is absolutely no reason for it. I honestly don't care when you want it, its a bad idea. yes there are more important things the game needs, but that doesn't mean when they're done horrible ideas like this should be added.

[MagicManICT]

1 you have several things that need to be coded that offer no benefit while there are tons of other things that would be great and it takes away from time that could be spent on those

Pretty much the decider on what gets added and what doesn't. Not sure why anyone is even suggesting adding new items as it has very, very clearly been stated that nothing much is going to get done until Salem is out the door because so many of the systems from Salem will get back-ported into H&H which will likely require major rewrites of several of the inventory and item systems. However, it's a computer game. Everything has to be coded to some degree. The difficulty in the coding is based on the server and database engines.

2 to add a new item you have reset alot of crap, if it can be done without a complete world reset its a suprise to me

It's done all the time. You'd definitely need a client change (for images, etc), but you don't always need a massive server change. See what I wrote about point #1.

Other thing to look at: climate. Are there reeds in northern Europe that are of a quality to make papyrus paper? I know I can't use the ones that grow in my area of the world because they are too woody.

As any forager knows, and as I stated in my post, the vast majority of all reeds would be of low quality like all other foragables.

Forageable == soil quality. Granted there is no q200 soil (currently), q100+ is known to have existed if it hasn't been found this world. A forageable plant fiber is just another freakishly huge advantage to those able to land there and claim it.

edit: fixed the damn borked quotes.

[evilrich]

Hides are useful for many things, but are they really worth using for parchment?

think of a better use for rabbit hides that newbies insist on bringing in? i'd rather turn rabbit hides into parchment than, say, deer hide

[AnnaC]

Actually sheepskin is made for parchment; you get double the parchment for the hide size. And usually sheepskins are not efficient to make into leathers because you'll only get 2. Rabbit furs really arent that bad for making seedbag leather and stuff for; sure you only get one leather, but you don't need to refill that much water per leather piece, so it's the easiest hide to refresh tanning tubs for.

With reeds, I dunno if it's needed. Paper sure isn't needed, as it is parchment is almost never used, and it's not because it's hard to make. There needs to be easier ways to have proper written correspondence in the hearthlands for paper and parchment to actually be useful; leaving random notes in baskets is not that efficient. The only way to have a type of postal system is to sell blank parchment in a barter stand for like a blueberry or something else accessible, and then leave a basket to put notes in. But because of how permissions are set up other people can't read and/or respond. Runestones can be read even on other property, so usually runestones are still the preffered method of leaving in-game messages.

Until there was some interactive structure that was more lenient with permissions that dealt with displaying written parchments, the idea of paper is basically unneeded in the hearthlands.

[MagicManICT]

Paper sure isn't needed, as it is parchment is almost never used, and it's not because it's hard to make.

Yup. However, there are those that go through a lot of parchment and then there are everyone else that doesn't even bother with the stuff.

[ImAwesome]

Until there was some interactive structure that was more lenient with permissions that dealt with displaying written parchments, the idea of paper is basically unneeded in the hearthlands.

now theres an idea I like, sign posts...maybe 2 branches and a board, quick and easy to make, that could be used instead of runestones for quick messages left by a neighbor. write message on parchment use on signpost the way you use signs on crossroads/milestones. owner of the signpost(and only owner) can remove messages, but anyone with access to the board can read or leave a message(the way barterstands are set up).