Making ranged more viable in combat

[NaoWhut]

<Theory>

chance of penetration seems to be more reliant on MM
than on the quality of your weapon, if you shoot with
good aim and proper trajectory for your target, the arrow
will hit where you want it depending on how well you shoot
the weapon, not how strong the weapon is.. so if i shot
the bow with 300 MM or 400 even if we use this to surpass
the limit of 300 for once... could i hit you in the armpit
or neck or eye everytime? maybe, pretty close to everytime
at least.

also, with the spiraling of the arrow from the feathers on
the tail the drag is reduced and velocity wont be lost as
fast, but if we were to think of that we may think of adding
chicken feathers to arrows, and take elevation into effect.
if i were to shoot straight down on attackers, gravity would
enact on my arrow, perhaps not fast enough to make too
much of a difference, but the drag of any shot at all would
not be so effective as to prevent penetration from a far
distance... Link for ya. and arrows link, for drag.

With distance you'd see the arrow reaching the aproximate
velocity that it was fired at as it descends to an equal
elevation as from which it was fired, so it would penetrate
BETTER from afar >.> Snipa...

I like the thought of blood loss as a debuff, but not so much
cripple and wound. Perhaps counter buffs for the struck?
Rage mode would be funny as a counter

[ApocalypsePlease]

Penetration = sqrt(marksmanship/manoeuvre weight) * base penetration?

You know why pure MC fighters are rare? It's for the same reason, except this would be worse for ranged since it has no manoeuvres based off marksmanship.

It comes down to UA fighters only needing to raise 1 skill for offensive and defensive purposes, while MC and ranged needing 2 skills.

This is the reason pure MC fighters are incredibly uncommon, since of the unorthodox strategies they need to apply to be effective. However this doesn't work for ranged as of the simplicity of how damage is dealt making it impossible to impose different strategies.

I dont like your calculations... "theoretical soldier's sword will be Q125"

did anyone even get a sword that high last world? maybe a single person in the entire game had a sword that good. everyone else had 90-110. last world i got a q107 sword and that was a spiraled sword using one of pande's best blocks and using their anvil...

I also dont agree with 484 strength (mid tier fighters) to 1000 strength (top tier fighters). Heck I had 80 million LP last map and I only had 400 str. I guess im not even a mid teir fighter...

The damage scales for different tiers, and yes there were people and swords this high.

how many people had over 1000 str last map? like 2 or 3? and how many had palibashing str? maybe 10+?

Your numbers are waaaay off on this. Most productive villages had a palibasher last world

I dont think trying to balance this game based on .5% of the player base does any good. If arrows dealt full penetration then noobs with only 100-200 HP will die in 2 shots even if they were wearing armour.

You realize they would die either way, right? The noobs with 100-200 hp wouldn't have AC that outdoes the natural damage of ranger's bows, so this change wouldn't affect them..

If people punching throught armour only deals 30-50 damage

There were people doing past 150 damage with punches

why should bows deal 100+ through the armour

I gave low 100 numbers, and this is also scaled to people who would have a Q125 ranger's bow.

and take 100+ penetration damage every second or two.

Because ranger's bows aim that fast, especially if the opposition has any clue what they're doing and runs around.

A 'normal' player, or a average player, without the use of botting to boost the stats, would most likely be half of what I see suggested in penetration and damage.

Then scale down the damage according to what a "normal" player would have.

Why not use distance and velocity to consider penetration of arrows?

Creates inconsistencies

chance.

1 shotting people in a Permadeath game should never come down to chance. Adding the RNG to combat is a terrible idea.

I use chance because a 100% chance to pierce armors every time seems off if the marksmanship skill is high enough to shoot enough arrows at that target.

You really can't spam accurate shots with a ranger's bow

So if a newbie or a normal player with the right knowledge

There is a considerable portion of the playerbase who would never know this, especially noobs, and especially when personal judgment of the distance between 2 players is taken into account.

Possible debuffs:

Debuffs have never worked in HnH

- Arrow to the knee (Yeah I know its a skyrim meme) *Slows the target down to a crawl speed for {x} seconds*

Does not completely ruin their ability to preform mobile fighting. Also the chance of something like this occuring should not happen in a permadeath game

- Blood loss *target loses {x}SHP/sec over time for {x} seconds*

This couldn't cause more than 100-150 damage overall or it would be overpowering

- Cripple *target's muscle weakens for {x} seconds and stats are dropped in halved*

can change a crucial moment in a fight, and by this being a "chance" at being a debuff, it has no place in a permadeath game

- Wound *target loses a {x} amount of hhp*

Mostly useless, unless it's meaningful damage in which why not just let it be penetration?

-velocity idea-

This makes ranged not viable in combat as a whole, I could go in depth but I before I do perhaps you could reread it and find out for yourself.

[Potjeh]

Focus fire by a couple of archers could instakill anyone bogged down in melee.

[ApocalypsePlease]

Focus fire by a couple of archers could instakill anyone bogged down in melee.

This could apply to focus fire from fighters, 2 people to break defense and 1 sting to KO a person.

[Potjeh]

There's a limit to how many melee fighters can get a hit in. Archers are virtually unrestrained.

[ApocalypsePlease]

There's a limit to how many melee fighters can get a hit in. Archers are virtually unrestrained.

3 is all that is needed. Archers are limited by their accuracy in turn meaning they need to be close enough.

[Potjeh]

3 isn't exactly easy to get in if the other guy has his friends with him. You can't just run around willy nilly without a move queued to get into position.

And in "close enough" you can probably fit 20 archers. They can cover each other, and just one-shot anyone that tries to melee one of them. By strategically retreating any individual archer can avoid getting mobbed without forcing people chasing him to expose themselves to getting punched on the move by another archer.

This is somehwat circumvented by forcing archers to be squishy so a melee fighter can quickly kill an archer if he catches up. Making them forgo raising UA much in favour of pumping MM does this.

[DeadlyPencil]

3000 = 1.2 * 400 * (SQRT(SQRT(115q*1326)/10))
700 str <> 1326 str

[NaoWhut]

doooood

what if there was a type of belief system for each
branch of combat? that would be interesting

[ApocalypsePlease]

Potjeh: To be stationed in such a way makes it so they can't be mobile, making the opposing side easily just go elsewhere and not be affected.

DeadlyPencil: What?