Blackest of the Black Arts

[SuperNoob]

I'm thinking more of it as an rpg. There is hearth magic, why not other types. I was suggesting the ritual to be hard to achieve and to cost many valuable resources. The minion would be hard to gain, and easy to lose
It's no more playing the game for you than your boat that carries you across the lakes. Why don't you swim
Or than the bow which you shoot
or the sword, or axe you swing.
Your only a real hearthling if you go about naked, with leeches as shoes, punching and swimming your way through the world!
That's what you saying V?

think about what you just wrote:
the boat YOU row across the river
the bow YOU shoot
the sword or axe YOU swing

the boat doesn't go by itself, the bow doesn't hunt by itself, the sword or axe don't swing themselves...you want to add something that does things on its own! don't say you have to command it, because commanding a creature to fight while you run away isn't the same as you fighting!

[Bodomfreak]

The Alter YOU build, the Minions YOU construct on it, with materials/skills YOU have found/learned, wielding the weapons YOU made for it, following the orders YOU are giving it
Don't forget items like:
The Dream catcher - collects dreams for you
The Tanning Tub - tans hides for you
The Smelter - produces finished metals for you
The Trading stalls - handles in game transactions between players for you (really?!)
The Palisade - protects your characters from most raiders/rangers(excluding rammers of course)
The Herbalist Table - makes items into different items for you
All whilst offline even!
There's plenty more without even touching on curiosities...
So Ultimately you have no issues and a fun perfectly implementable new skill-set for players to enjoy.

[Arcanist]

So, here's how magic is going to work: There will be no magic.

[Bodomfreak]

What exactly would you label these then:
Hearth MAGIC <---------
Fast travel in all forms
Scent following
Summoning offline players to kill them
Ancestral worship
Reincarnation
Let alone the abilities of the chieftain.
To tell me these things are not matters of magic is foolishness... (which technically no one person has done yet)
Furthermore the creatures of the land display abilities which can only be explained with magic, i.e. Deer

[SuperNoob]

What exactly would you label these then:
1 Hearth MAGIC <---------
2 Fast travel in all forms
3 Scent following
4 Summoning offline players to kill them
5 Ancestral worship
6 Reincarnation
7 Let alone the abilities of the chieftain.
8 To tell me these things are not matters of magic is foolishness... (which technically no one person has done yet)
9 Furthermore the creatures of the land display abilities which can only be explained with magic, i.e. Deer

I numbered them so I can answer them easier:
1 just because its called hearth magic doesn't mean its actually magic...ever seen a guy pull a quater from behind someone's ear? honestly look at what you can do with the skill-make dream catchers
2 its not magic its a lost technology that bends the space time continuum allowing you to almost instantly move to another location
3 are bloodhounds magical creatures too?
4 the police kick in people's doors all the time, just because they're asleep doesn't mean the police are magic
5 you don't have to worship them if you don't want to...
6 its not reincarnation, its inheritting. like if you own crap and die and you have kids they get it
7 what abilities?
8 I hadn't said there was no magic but now I will
9 deer aren't actually deer, they're druids in disguise, not magical druids the potion brewing kind, not magical potions more like folk remedies that restore 100 health

as to what YOU use tools to do, they're still tools!
a smelter doesn't load itself with ore
a tanning tub doesn't gather hides, water, and bark by itself
noone uses trading stalls unless they're discovering an item or don't know any better
a palisade doesn't just appear around you
and herbalist tables don't do anything except hold items you're sunning(and no I have no problems with the sun doing its own thing)

my issue isn't with a skill for a player to enjoy, its with a creature that does what you tell it without you having any personal risk. imagine sending your undead minion onto a claim to lift a chest, how does 1 track that minion? it has no hf, isn't active when its owner is offline...I don't use bots, but there are plenty in the wizards tower, if thats what you want go get 1(they can do the same things you're asking here with less work and less chances to screw up game stuff)!

[Bodomfreak]

I'd like to start with a thank you to SuperNoob, who can debate like champ and not lose his cool. Thanks for being awesome
Rebuttal:
1. just the in game text of Hearth Magic as a skill
2. so sci-fi is ok? Where is my droid?
3. No, as far as I know Bloodhounds are not magic. People however, cannot smell so acutely and defiantly could not determine what type of crime was committed.
4a. Police are bad...
4b. I'm not asleep when i log out, I vanish from all creation.
5. That's not a rebuttal, do you concede to point 5?
6. Although the term is Inherit, it acts more like reincarnation in practice. Unless you can find your body, you only get knowledge of past lives...
7. Summoning Hirdsmen, making Hirdsmen, a few others. No logical explanation of those capabilities. Minor point.
8. Wet met Sir!
9. then why do you get deer meat when you butcher them
10. I adhere to my major point, the minion does no more for you than a pali or boat...actually less

[borka]

So, here's how magic is going to work: There will be no magic.

So have a dialogue by PM if you like ...

No magic in HnH - no need for discussion about magic in C&I - simple conclusion done without any magic ...