Stats not permanent

[TeckXKnight]

I've got nothing else to say to you biased, thoughtless fanboys. Ejecting now. Maybe I'll download Hello Kitty island adventure just to spite you. I'd probably have more fun on there than grinding flax for months on end.

Do it. Do it and take pics.

[dragonxkai]

Fucking elitists.

Enjoy being the glorious Haven and Hearth Hardcore gaming master race. Some of you people in this fucking forum community belong at Neogaf. At least, then you'd be pissing in an ocean that is already made of piss.

The way Haven is now, is bad. Even the dev's realize that. So eat up this "perfect system" while you fucking can, because eventually if they decide to continue working on this game, the walls are gonna collapse around you, and you dumbfounded dipshits will undoubtedly cry and ask why they ruined, what is apparent to me based on most of your opinions, an already flawless game (in alpha state) with no room for change or improvement.

I've got nothing else to say to you biased, thoughtless fanboys. Ejecting now. Maybe I'll download Hello Kitty island adventure just to spite you. I'd probably have more fun on there than grinding flax for months on end.

Not elitist at all in regards to how games work.

A game without any challenge and goals becomes boring, thus in online games, you are given the free will to decide what you want to do with the current game mechanics.
If you so pleased to grind 48 hours, sure. If you wanna invite everyone from your neighborhood to make a giant settlement to own people, sure.
With online games, anything goes in a sense, as the issue isn't the game itself, it's you and your stance on the multiplayer side of the game, the players who plays it in different ways.

I played Planetside 2 and it frustrates me to no end to see Vanu Sovereignty spam their low recoil, no bullet drop, guns at me and seemingly kill me all the time from mid-long range, simply because I play NC so my gun recoils a lot, and has heavy bullet drops at mid range, but packs a punch close up.

The issue isn't purely in the game, it's the latency as I notice that me and a enemy popping out of a corner and the enemy always hits me first even when i landed 10 rounds on him. Then there's the multiplayer part where VS can simply outnumber you by forming real life groups to play in higher numbers, thus outpopulate your faction and pretty much winning the war on a map... Until it's their bed time that is.

The thing is, multiplayer is unpredictable, it's suppose to be, it's how you get to enjoy ganking 10 people by hiding in trees and sniping them, and how they all feel frustrated by you camping them. One sided bias doesn't mean nothing. In the Open Betas, I played Assault and jump jet onto the trees and did nothing but snipe them with a silenced weapon, simply because they never bat an eyelid when i shot em.
Now, past release, the moment i shoot they kill me.

[dagrimreefah]

Whiny diatribe

Wow, someone sure is a melodramatic spoiled little crybaby brat who forgot that this game is free, isn't she?

[cloakblade]

So I'm going to bring this idea back.
With this post getting so much traction I don't understand why people are against the idea of making infinitely scaling reduced. One idea from that thread was capping skills by gear quality and I think a similar approach can be taken here. I know the idea isn't perfect but its a start.

So the thing we want is to reduce the abuse of stat grind but allow people to still continue to progress as the game goes on, although some might argue for a strict cap that isn't something HnH is about. So I propose that stats have a softcap that is based on the quality of food you eat, I use the term softcap to mean that you can probably go beyond that but it will decay down to that point after time. I will also bring up throwing in another variable but that is not a core idea.

So there are multiple ways to approach this. We can either base the cap of your stats individually or as a whole. The latter is far simpler to implement and understand you simply have an average quality of food you eat and increasing it increases your cap on stats. The former I think would be good to prevent someone from eating enough Bear Meat (or similar easily high quality food) to increase other stats, basically if a food gives a FEP towards that stat it counts towards it's cap. You should also obviously have a base amount (I think 40 would be fine) and then I think it should be a linear increase (Q10 putting you at 50). The one thing bad about a linear progression, at least 1:1, is that palibashers don't exist but if you simply have it either scale at x2 or a non-linear function you should be able to get a palibasher easily enough (Q200 bear meat only on an alt that wields a sledgehammer).

The other variable I'd like to introduce is a complexity variable. This variable represents how complex the food you eat is. This is to solve the problem of some foods being worthless until a much farther point in the game that you receive them. A prime example this solves is Midnight Blue Cheese v Bear Meat as the cheese is likely to have much lower quality for a long time compared to bear mean but should obviously be better at helping. This can be added in many ways and is something the devs will either have to make a decision on or mess around with for a while, luckily the variable could be mostly hidden allowing you to fiddle with it. The variable may feel a little arbitrary but would allow for an interesting way to balance foods (bear meat v cheese is a great example of this).

You may also want to allow people to weight recently eaten food more than previously so you don't end up having to grind too much in order to increase your stat quality.

[TeckXKnight]

Decay wasn't fun when it meant burning an extra 200 bricks every day and it's not going to magically be fun when it means baking an extra 200 pies everyday. Adding tedious grind to maintain stats punishes players for playing the game and reduces any drive to come back if you leave for even a short period of time. Yes it acts as a resource sink but for a problem that's almost non-existent. Aside from maybe agility, stats aren't terribly important when it comes to foraging, farming, crafting, and combat. What's actually important are skills. The big exception to all of this being strength for mining -- but why on earth would you want to nerf that?

Your first idea I have to disagree with. Artificially cap stats so that you have to grind food that raises the cap so that you can eat normal food to raise your stats? That is everything everyone hated about Salem's gluttony system. Eat this food so that you can eat normal food to do the same thing in a convoluted manner and complicate the process.

Also cheese is already the god-tier food. It provides good stats with a large focus on one, sometimes two FEPs. What makes it the best thing ever is the fact that you can make a billion of them at once with just a few cows and grapes. Cheese doesn't need to be q200 like bear meat when you can consume hundreds of cheese slices per bear meat that you acquire. If you wanted to make complexity meaningful then make it weigh more than basic foods when reducing total FEP requirements to gain stats. The problem with this is that this only further increases the disparity between new players and older players without doing much beyond increasing stat inflation.

Edit: In retrospect, I think what everyone in this thread actually wants to change is the way the hunger system works. The hunger system is archaic and is an example of what the old lp system was like; you are rewarded for doing pointless tasks for the sake of doing pointless tasks. IE: Plowing plowed land while guzzling as much q10 water as you can. By modifying this you shift how stat growth works and it stops being Eating Food: The Game.

[SuperNoob]

Eating Food: The Game.

so now you have to come up with an idea to change the hunger system since you're adressing an actual problem...and please don't say hunger based on time online.

[TeckXKnight]

Eating Food: The Game.

:lol: so now you have to come up with an idea to change the hunger system since you're adressing an actual problem...and please don't say hunger based on time online.

No, that would mirror the personal belief sliders and those are also terrible. You are rewarded for idling online and punished for being constructive and meaningful with your time.

You can't just attach it to certain actions either or you get a system very similar to what we have now.

So then the issue becomes finding a meaningful metric to attach hunger drain to.

[bitza]

i would argue that the primary issue that needs to be addressed with stats is not food, but LP (curiosities in particular but the LP system as a whole)

[cloakblade]

Decay wasn't fun when it meant burning an extra 200 bricks every day and it's not going to magically be fun when it means baking an extra 200 pies everyday. Adding tedious grind to maintain stats punishes players for playing the game and reduces any drive to come back if you leave for even a short period of time. Yes it acts as a resource sink but for a problem that's almost non-existent. Aside from maybe agility, stats aren't terribly important when it comes to foraging, farming, crafting, and combat. What's actually important are skills. The big exception to all of this being strength for mining -- but why on earth would you want to nerf that?

My idea wasn't to require you to eat 200 more pies a day unless you want to have a temporary buff for some reason.
Both system punish you equally assuming you're looking at by yourself, if you don't play for a week you're a week behind. My system allows you to catch up assuming you have trade connections, so that you can get higher quality food and get to the cap.

Your first idea I have to disagree with. Artificially cap stats so that you have to grind food that raises the cap so that you can eat normal food to raise your stats? That is everything everyone hated about Salem's gluttony system. Eat this food so that you can eat normal food to do the same thing in a convoluted manner and complicate the process.

The ideas isn't quite that. I want to expand onto the current system and make quality matter more for stats. You can even mess around with it and average your current stat cap with the quality you just gained so the weight of previously gained amounts is reduced.

Also cheese is already the god-tier food. It provides good stats with a large focus on one, sometimes two FEPs. What makes it the best thing ever is the fact that you can make a billion of them at once with just a few cows and grapes. Cheese doesn't need to be q200 like bear meat when you can consume hundreds of cheese slices per bear meat that you acquire. If you wanted to make complexity meaningful then make it weigh more than basic foods when reducing total FEP requirements to gain stats. The problem with this is that this only further increases the disparity between new players and older players without doing much beyond increasing stat inflation.

I state that part because in the system I stated STR cheese would be worthless as it would hurt your cap compared to Bear Meat for the purposes of upping str. And if left normally it might hurt it a significant amount. Adding in a multiplier makes it so that something that is usually lower quality at the start (cheese) can still be good to most compared to early high quality food (bear meat). Obviously someone like a miner/palibasher wouldn't care but the normal person it would.

I don't know if I explained myself correctly.


I'm confused by the community sometimes. In the thread I linked the majority of people cried because the systems is un-capped and exploitable but here with stats (instead of skills) everyone wants an exploitable system.

Edit: Due to new posts.
@TechX: So in your opinion would you rather you have a stomach system where you put food in it is the curiosity system. Although I'm not against such a thing I think that stats are far more complex to give a simple system like that to.
@blitza: Yes the primary problem is with the skill system but the stat system is still something that can be examined.

[TeckXKnight]

I'm confused by the community sometimes. In the thread I linked the majority of people cried because the systems is un-capped and exploitable but here with stats (instead of skills) everyone wants an exploitable system.

From combat to crafting, what actually matters are your skills. Stats are just there as a nice little buffer and to speed things up when you're already winning. We have a lot of lp inflation to the point where you breeze by most early game stuff within a day or two if you know what you're doing and immediately start the grind up to big, nasty raiding characters.

Stats-- well, they let you mine and help a bit in combat. If you've got 1,200 str or 20 str is irrelevant if you're punching through your opponents defense in combat and they aren't breaking yours. The biggest industries are farming and mining for most people. Farming is entirely skill based and will build your cheese, cattle, chickens, and craft goods. Mining requires strength but it's already such a pain that why are you nerfing it at all?

You're asking for an overhaul to a system that works pretty darn well to a system that sounds really grindy for the sake of grind. When you leave for a week now, you're a week behind. In your theoretical system if you left for a week you'd be a week behind + you'd lose all of the temp stats you were building to do what you need to do. Unless you're cutting any benefit that temp stats could give to the average player -- then why would anyone ever use them? So now you've lost a ton of work without anyone else so much as poking your walls, you're going to have to rebuild it or trade away a lot of your valuables to get back to where you were, and you're also out a week. It's like being raided constantly and passively.

So you're suggesting adding upkeep or making stats irrelevant. These aren't acceptable solutions to a problem that is, at worst, tenuously there.