New Structure: The Keep

[Robi]

I believe a decent addition to the game would be a new kind of structure, The Keep. The keep would be designed specifically for defensive purposes. The reasoning behind it is to offer people who get trapped in their own villages/claims a chance to defend themselves, I'll explain how further down.

The keep would work the similar to the current houses, a ground floor, a basement addition, an upstairs area, and then a third floor which would be open to the outside world. To keep the structure from being too over-powered, the inside should only be 5x5 tiles in size, to keep them from storing multiple hearthfires and loads of valuables.

There would be two main advantages to this structure, first of all the door would work similar to a gate, it could be open/closed by anyone with a key, making it very ideal to store any goodies as well as hearthfires. The second advantage would be when a person is standing on the third open floor, they would receive a boost in ranged attacks' accuracy and marksmanship, so one could defend effectively. Obviously the attacker on the ground level would have their accuracy and marksmanship reduced only when attacking the defender. As explained in the link below the sole purpose of the keep is a last resort for a castle that was under attack.

Now, to the creation idea. The keep should be very expensive to create considering how effective it would be, it would obviously require a LOT of stone, perhaps stone boulders themselves could be part of the construction process. Other requirements could be a significant amount of steel, bricks, planks, blocks of wood, etc. My suggestion would be: 1600 Stones, 80 Steel, 400 planks, 500 blocks of wood. Destruction of the keep would require a ram and a significant amount of strength to destroy, making it an effective yet costly means of defense.

Now to the part that ties it together, the keep would require a village claim with at least 300k authority daily, if the authority begins to drop the keep begins to rot, which would mean the village would HAVE to be active in order to keep their defenses. There can only be one keep per village, to prevent large vaults, and as far as the hearth vault issue goes hearth fires could not be created within the keep.

Now some criticism would be nice, whether it be good or bad. I did a quick search and did not find any threads solely about the creation of this structure.

Edit: For some basic historical information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep

[Savori]

Sounds more like Stronghold Crusaders game that I used to play. But anyways, a nice addition if added.

[AnnaC]

You can already build a keep. Wrap a brickwall around a stone mansion.

The only thing that doesn't have that's in your suggestion is the arrow perch. But guess what? That's essentially impossible with the game mechanics, as the game makes no distinction for elevation, and hearthlings cannot share the same space as structures. The only mechanic even related to this, would be static vehicles (like mounting wagons/boats/rafts), and perhaps have it so you can get some sort of combat bonus while in the structure. But even then, ranged "combat" is basically a placeholder mechanic and needs to be reworked anyway.

Also, on principle, I feel that Haven & Hearth should avoid suggestions that heavily invoke ideas of high medieval aesthetics and design. Not that there is a set time period, it is more based on pre-medieval times, and how overused generic medieval themes are in various media, I think on principle H&H should avoid it as much as possible.


One idea I did like and I think would be useful to build upon or implement, is the idea of having dwelling structures securable by themselves. The only downside to this is the key mechanics in game can be somewhat insufferable to begin with.

[Robi]

You can already build a keep. Wrap a brickwall around a stone mansion.

That is not the intention of the keep, as explained above the reason for the keep is to add a structure with the sole purpose for being the last resort during a village raid.

The only thing that doesn't have that's in your suggestion is the arrow perch. But guess what? That's essentially impossible with the game mechanics, as the game makes no distinction for elevation, and hearthlings cannot share the same space as structures.

It would not require any major changes to the games elevation mechanics, at all, it would work the same way as cliffs do, the player would "technically" be on the ground floor, but appear as if they were on top of the tower. Whether or not the stat bonuses had any affect would be the only mechanic in question.

Also, on principle, I feel that Haven & Hearth should avoid suggestions that heavily invoke ideas of high medieval aesthetics and design. Not that there is a set time period, it is more based on pre-medieval times, and how overused generic medieval themes are in various media, I think on principle H&H should avoid it as much as possible.

This is a personal opinion, therefor it isn't a valid argument as to why we shouldn't have this structure.

One idea I did like and I think would be useful to build upon or implement, is the idea of having dwelling structures securable by themselves. The only downside to this is the key mechanics in game can be somewhat insufferable to begin with.

The only issue would be the hearthfires and large amounts of loot that could be indefinitely secured, only the destruction of the building could have any affect and if that were the case then raids would be nearly useless due to the lack of loot obtainable. Which is why I suggested to only allow one keep per village, to prevent this.

[overtyped]

I think they should "keep" this idea out of the game.

[dagrimreefah]

I STRUCTURE once, twice, I STRUCTURE 3 times and I still could BEARLY KEEP her down.

I agree with what AnnaC said.

[AnnaC]

You can already build a keep. Wrap a brickwall around a stone mansion.

That is not the intention of the keep, as explained above the reason for the keep is to add a structure with the sole purpose for being the last resort during a village raid.

That's what a mansion with it's own little brickwall around it would be, too. And back in ye olden days when you could have crossroads indoors, that was practically the standard setup for vaults.

The only thing that doesn't have that's in your suggestion is the arrow perch. But guess what? That's essentially impossible with the game mechanics, as the game makes no distinction for elevation, and hearthlings cannot share the same space as structures.

It would not require any major changes to the games elevation mechanics, at all, it would work the same way as cliffs do, the player would "technically" be on the ground floor, but appear as if they were on top of the tower. Whether or not the stat bonuses had any affect would be the only mechanic in question.

Cliffs have nothing to do with elevation, they are simply an (almost) impassable 1-tile line, created by the worldgen. Again, you're assuming the game works in ways it doesn't work. The only precedent for hearthlings sharing the same space as a structure, is with mounting vehicles. I see no reason to assume a "keep" would act otherwise; and again, except for a combat bonus for people inside the "keep" walls, there is no difference than wrapping a mansion/cabin/house in a brickwall. So we have that already, don't need a new ill-planned building for this.

The only issue would be the hearthfires and large amounts of loot that could be indefinitely secured, only the destruction of the building could have any affect and if that were the case then raids would be nearly useless due to the lack of loot obtainable. Which is why I suggested to only allow one keep per village, to prevent this.

But you're assuming a stone mansion with it's own brickwall and gate doesn't function in the exact same way already.

[DDDsDD999]

Arbitrary sole purpose structures with multiple parts all in one package seem like something that shouldn't belong in H&H. Jorb originally wanted houses to be built piece by piece, but the engine wasn't ready for such nice things.

[SuperNoob]

Jorb originally wanted houses to be built piece by piece, but the engine wasn't ready for such nice things.

that would be better than waiting 24 hours

[Seizure]

Jorb originally wanted houses to be built piece by piece, but the engine wasn't ready for such nice things.

that would be better than waiting 24 hours

Those two have nothing to do with eachother...