Game Rename

[Yolan]

I will add this thought...

Players may invest a lot of time into doing/building something and then a new change makes that work irrelevant (I have a massive firewall, for example, which is now falling apart piece by piece).

This does bother me. I gotta say, for example, that I am taking a small hiatus for now. This feels to me reminiscent of the gap between upped expenses for cabins, and the implementation of reforestation. We have destruction of objects in, but not tough walls. We have decay, but not decent sized buildings to store industry inside. As long as we are in this dark valley, I just can't be bothered.

BUT

I am at the same time very excited that J&L are putting the development of their vision first, especially at this stage of the process. Of course, it would suck if they ignored what we say. And they don't. But at the same time, it would really be a shame if their development/work revolved around reacting to peoples problems, or perceived problems.

It can be painful, but we are in a sandbox game, where the parameters are being changed. Certain styles of play/activities may become impossible, and that feels like we are losing something. But, when one door closes, another may well open. Taking the longer view can help on these things.

For example, after I set up Shadyacres, as is well known, it was smashed by thieves/griefers. Well, after that I left, and set up elsewhere in a nice spot, with serious thought given to defense. With some herculean effort, I built a pretty big base for myself pretty much unaided. Now I am seeing that with decay that base is going to take maintenance, probably more maintenance/time than I am willing to spare. Now, one part of me thinks, well that sucks. I used to be able to make my own base and do what I want, and now I can't. But another part of me thinks, well, _should_ a single person be able to have a complete industrial/agricultural walled fortress maintained and ticking over single handedly? Perhaps not. In any case, we now have but one more reason for sharing the burden of repairing such things as kilns, smelters and such, by joining a community.

I just hope we get some walls soon...

[Hamel]

Griefing people who show any kind of response is fun. Griefing people who say nothing gets boring and ultimately meaningless for the purposes that its done.

Now you are insinuating that I have responded to you somehow. The only response I have ever given you was tracking your alt back to the RoB, glaring at you angrily and then walking off in the middle of your rantings. I cannot possibly see how you could ever find that entertaining.

[jorb]

This project was originally called "Haven" quite simply, which is how loftar and I still refer to it. It became Haven & Hearth when we realized that there already were games called Haven. The alliteration is obviously in tribute of Dungeons & Dragons. The "& Hearth" also turned out to tie in nicely with several game concepts, such as hearth fires.

...obviously we're not going to change it, but keep talking.

And "Conflict in Eden"? Since when exactly are we building a game loosely inspired by judeo-christian mythology? .... (Actually, I have so many cool ideas for that. I would love to build that. But we're building this now. Focus.)

[Raephire]

This project was originally called "Haven" quite simply, which is how loftar and I still refer to it. It became Haven & Hearth when we realized that there already were games called Haven. The alliteration is obviously in tribute of Dungeons & Dragons. The "& Hearth" also turned out to tie in nicely with several game concepts, such as hearth fires.

...obviously we're not going to change it, but keep talking.

And "Conflict in Eden"? Since when exactly are we building a game loosely inspired by judeo-christian mythology? .... (Actually, I have so many cool ideas for that. I would love to build that. But we're building this now. Focus.)

Well I'll be going to college for computer programming in the new year, So if you and Loftar want to send a stripped down engine my way I could work on a sister game based on different concepts :p

[Yolan]

I would like to see a warring states period Japan + mythical Japanese beasts setting myself. *drool*

[kobnach]

And "Conflict in Eden"? Since when exactly are we building a game loosely inspired by judeo-christian mythology? .... (Actually, I have so many cool ideas for that. I would love to build that. But we're building this now. Focus.)

Oh I agree it's out of theme. I couldn't think of a good suggestion, which is why I asked others. I also figured few of them would be as au courant with Scandinavian as Christian myths, so when someone complained about the (sarcastic) "Havoc and Hatred" name, I used the language I hoped they'd know best.

And on the other hand - since when are silk worms Scandinavian?

[kobnach]

OK, The following is a response to TheTrav, but the quoting is getting out of hand.

meaning you don't want to address anything I've actually said?

Meaning I preferred to address selected points without the nuisance of quoting.

First of all, Dondy has no need to trade with you for leather, as long as my stuff doesn't get griefed into oblivion; I gave him the leather for his last outfit

Ok, good for you, I think he was implying that he wasn't able to get leather together and using that as evidence that thieves always win. This is obviously not the case.

At the risk of putting words into his mouth, I think his basic complaint was not being able to produce much of anything himself, thanks to what you consider to be merely "risk" (below).

There are presently three people, in the whole game, who are expressing the view that the latest change makes things insecure

Think about what you're saying there... I don't think anyone would disagree that this change makes things less secure... In fact I believe that's entirely the INTENT of this change. No vaults, and no blocking people off.

I left out a word: excessively.

To most people in this game, the choices are complete lack of any actual security, or no risk at all. You (and I) would find it boring to have no risk and no degradation. Therefore both you and the developers prefer to have a situation where it's impossible to reliably preserve anything. I got pretty much laughed down when I suggested a small amount of absolutely secure storage and workspace, such as a cabin.

Instead, I should join a big town full of strangers in multiple time zones, hoping that none of them are secret thieves, and all of them hang around town protecting my stuff. At least, that's your counter proposal in this thread.

and several disagreeing with what I consider a minimum requirement for anything meriting the name of Haven.

Your minimum requirement appears to be the ability to play with zero risk. That's not what the game is about any more than 100% griefers and thieves.

Now there's no security at all

1 - If you can manage to form a large enough community to have players on and vigilant around the clock you will have your security. Bottleneck has come close with about 14 players.
2 - There's no ABSOLUTE security, but there are several limited security measures available without counting revenge (which obviously isn't security).

Yep, to have any absolute protection for anything constitutes zero risk in the whole game. In your opinion at least, and it would seem that of many other players.

I think that's a more appropriate suggestion, but still I think you're being negative, and I don't think it's what the dev's want to encourage, nor something that should do.

I don't think it's negative, just realistic. Any "haven" at all is (incorrectly) called "zero risk" and labeled unacceptable, so the name is clearly inappropriate.

One of you people who enjoy conflict and risk should suggest some Scando-Germanic themed names, for a game that you would find attractive, with plenty of risk and conflict and all the other things you find so desirable. Make it accurate, so those of us who misunderstand the game's intent will know not to waste their time.