cherryquartz wrote:loftar wrote:SnuggleSnail wrote:having a private map with player dots on it.
That is a fair point. Looking back at the format of the data he's actually sending, there may be a case to be made that it is needlessly revealing if the point is merely to build a public map. It should be possible to batch collected grids together every half hour or something. If that is a non-trivial implementation, I would in fact strongly suggest that Shubla turn his telemetry off until he has the opportunity to implement that.
The fact that he is even collecting that data is suspicious, if he doesn't need it for the public map, WHY collect it? He is fooling you all with this holier than thou nonsense. Surely you can see that his actions are at best suspicious, there is literally NO reason for him to collect that data unless he is using it for malicious purposes.
Who he plays with and whether he is in a large faction should have nothing to do with it, even as a small village, having the location of anyone that uses his client gives him a HUGE advantage, a very unfair and malicious advantage. I wonder why you seem concerned about Snails intentions regarding Shubla but defend Shublas intentions even though he has given no valid reason for collecting such data, especially without any opt in or out feature. You also allow him to advertise the map, the map code he stole from Alg, he has admitted that he stole the code and yet you still allow him to advertise the content, content that he now benefits financially from.
You're setting a precedence for this activity and behaviour to run rampant on these forums, same as when you allowed Shubla to bribe you into changing the boat combat mechanics. Something needs to change, for whatever reason you're allowing one person to make a mockery of yourselves, this forum and the game in general.
Don’t quite think that is Loftar’s idea here to “defend shubla”. I think as the game dev and moderator he needs to make sure it justified. Like in any law court someone must show intent for an action and the action must be lawfully wrong. In shublas case it is clearly ethically wrong and probably client wise considered lawfully wrong in the sense someone is collecting information without making it clear or giving users the option to turn it off. If shubla did this after the case of the client fiasco where accounts were stolen using custom clients, then I am sure he would be insta banned and nuked right now. But the issue that is hard to tell is what shublas intent was. Loftar doesn’t know shublas true intent even if it leans towards maliciously using the map files which we all know he probably will and most likely do or monetize the data to the highest bidder if he isn’t already sharing this information. If Loftar just banned him out right now then Snail who for instance destroyed KoA through game mechanics could be categorized under the same slippery slope for that action even though he was just diligent enough about reading and thinking about game mechanics and using them to his full advantage which imho is never wrong and more of a game design flaw.
I do think however that shubla should be forced to add a toggle to sending map data and a warning if the map is defaulted to send data. If he truly has good intentions this won’t be an issue. If his intentions are bad then he will refuse. In which case I think majority of the community would be apt for banning his existence.
Edit: And @Loftar about the issue at debate. My reasoning is that there is a lot of non-english speakers who play Hafen who have no idea of this and use his client fully without knowing the usages of shubla's "service". There is a point to where you are collecting map data to assist in a map or food data to assist in collecting food. Having no turn off mechanism with collecting player coordinates and hats is a slippery slope if done incorrectly and especially the way Shubla has done it. If a client like this existed in world 6 with sending player coordinates in such the way he has, it would have most likely been an insta banned.
Times have changed since then and people want to use it for good intentions which changes the scenario a bit but Shubla has crossed yet another line with the collection of hats which just doesn't seem like a valid reason to send that data without a disclaimer and an off mechanism at all. I could see justification about map tiles but player coordinates, hats, and names, that is a hard no for any justification for that. PvP in this game already suffers but giving groups the unfair advantage of who is who defeats the purpose of the memo system.