Most changes to hunting since w8 have been terrible

[Massa]

Quality Nodes on Animals
I understand the intent here was probably to encourage people to go around and find better quality animals to kill but in practice it just lead to people finding high quality animal spots and then using bots to reload them until an animal spawns. The fact that a bears base quality is 60 but it can go up to well over 300 is completely ridiculous. If not for sausages, I'd likely ignore every animal outside of the ones the bots spot because the quality difference is so insane

This is the only truly egregious one. This just shouldn't be the case. If Jorbonzola wants us to go out and explore/search making animals random across the board would do a better job of it. Anyone with nice nodes (everyone lol) will probably hate this idea.

Armor on animals and survival caps were to prevent people from day 1 mobbing them with alts. Ironically, this made both no difference to cheesing and didn't actually change anything, because people don't fight bears with 20 1-10 ua alts. Armor was an understandable change, need to have a certain threshold to hurt something big, but the survival cap was just a bit needless and harmful. We already fuck up the quality immensely if, early world, we butcher without stats.

-1 i utterly hated how in legacy all it took was a sling and 20 MM to fell a freaking bear. It's such a breach of progression and honestly at the start of w8 it was absolutely apocalyptic because of how terrible the animal hunting was due to no hardcap. People would get 10 MM right off the bat and start killing the largest beasts in the game.

Yup. Needing 1 MC and a bronze sword is so much better

I know this is sarcasm but i agree with the intent behind it, being that its ridicilous to hunt with low stats and 1 piece of half decent gear, which is why we should reduce the pierce of swords and other weapons and instead scale pierce with stats so in order to reasonably be able to damage powerful animals you need powerful stats.

Since you seem to appeal to realism or something in all of your posts, you should probably be aware that things like MC, UA, strength levels, hit points, quality and """stats""" don't actually exist in real life. A sharp stick is a sharp stick. It pokes no matter what. What it took to kill megafauna prehistorically for humans was a dozen naked dudes with sharp sticks going full send on the most isolated part of a herd of mammoths, or using traps/poison. So, no, it is not ridiculous that day 1 naked hearthlings creatively kill animals that are meant to be massively powerful. The sharp stick is nature's great equalizer.

[linkfanpc]

Since you seem to appeal to realism or something in all of your posts, you should probably be aware that things like MC, UA, strength levels, hit points, quality and """stats""" don't actually exist in real life.

They do though? At least, strength and stats.

A sharp stick is a sharp stick. It pokes no matter what. What it took to kill megafauna prehistorically for humans was a dozen naked dudes with sharp sticks going full send on the most isolated part of a herd of mammoths, or using traps/poison. So, no, it is not ridiculous that day 1 naked hearthlings creatively kill animals that are meant to be massively powerful. The sharp stick is nature's great equalizer.

You're forgetting a lot of them died. Also, weren't those guys like, way stronger than modern humans? Day 1 hearthlings i've always felt are canonically as strong as an actual baby.

It pokes no matter what.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfound ... -1.4346689

I'll agree hunting as of now is annoyingly complex, but idk, i don't like the idea i can just have 5 friends hop in as nakies and actually help me easily take down a bear on day 2, i actually quite liked the armor changes to animals, it helped somewhat with day 1 high tier animal kills, and it's also just more interesting. When they first added Cave Conch i was like "wtf, animals can have armor? why don't bears have some?"

[Sevenless]

Tbh, jorb's made it pretty clear we really need an AI rework to make hunting better than what we have. Just take away animals running in combat (because that re-aggro bug is mandatory to hunt many creatures, but just isn't a fun mechanic which it has effectively become) until that fix goes through.

[Massa]

the assertion that stats exist and that ancient humans were stronger

I wrote up a pointlessly long winded response with references to studies done on ancient humans and more recent ones then deleted it because no one cares. But basically, they're the same as us physically (mostly), and we're playing a video game. Day 1 hearthlings are carrying entire trees. Again, just a video game.

No, there is no stat sheet that you go to level up in reality, which was my attack on Lich's points, because he keeps appealing to a sense of realism or some shit as do most people who can't put in the slight effort to hunt an animal. Stats do not exist. There is no strength stat you level up from attacking things or eating sausages. Hard stop. Ancient humans didn't go to the gym or anything, either.

I really just fail to understand why (and it's ALWAYS sprucecaps with this hot take) there is this strange demand for a square 1v1 with a mammoth in a boxing ring where only your stats matter. It's just math at that point, and an annoying time to heal. Sorry dude, it's a video game, and a mammoth is a big cow that turns into fashion. I'm not retiring my character for a month of wounds for a cool jacket. Then, it's followed by an appeal to illogical logic or reality. Is this a video game or is it a supposed emulation of real life to the people making this case? The reality is that humans hunted in creative, devious ways, and no mammoth is going to make it out of a mountain pass with a dozen butt naked, half starving dudes with a dozen sharp sticks each.

Why is it 'ridiculous' that a new, or weak but smart individual can hunt much more powerful animals with some creativity? We don't have that luxury in the game, we don't get punji sticks, but we do have cheese. And you will never create an AI that a human won't just cheese. Most of these threads just read as spruce caps wanting to hamper more advanced/intrepid/creative players because they themselves can't pants a mammoth.

[Massa]

Tbh, jorb's made it pretty clear we really need an AI rework to make hunting better than what we have. Just take away animals running in combat (because that re-aggro bug is mandatory to hunt many creatures, but just isn't a fun mechanic which it has effectively become) until that fix goes through.

There is no such thing as an AI that a human will ever find difficult unless it's simply impossible.

Extremely annoying, sure. Extremely punishing, sure. But there is nothing that a computer will do that can't be boiled down to a simple 'meta' by humans right away, including an AI. PvE in any video game isn't hard. Doesn't mean it can't be 'challenging' in some ways and fun/engaging. And you better believe with how long some wounds take to heal that people will absolutely just cheese shit. Any change to an AI that gets brought to the table will provide 20 opportunities to break/cheese it.

Does every boar encounter need to be a fight for life when an entire boar turns into two sausages? It's a pig. Poke it and be done. They're trash mobs for farming.

[Archiplex]

clearly we need to employ deeplearning ai's into the game

[Zampfeo]

Nodes are fun to discover, but the scouting bots are an issue. Node migration (or even completely random qualities) would fix that. Give strider a way to see quality from afar while we're at it.

Survival capping is a straight up bad mechanic. It's anti-social. Armor works well enough at preventing hunting alt abuse.

Armor works okay at capping progression. A boar spear is needed now rather than a sling. I think armor in general is a pretty flawed mechanic in Haven, though, because of the way it works as flat damage reduction; making slow and high damaging combat moves ideal for overcoming it. Because of this, full circle and a boar spear is all that's needed to hunt most things and faster attacks are useless. We'd be better off with a system that effectively says: "you can't damage boars at all until you have 60 UA, 60 MC, or a q60 weapon" IMO.

[shubla]

Tbh, jorb's made it pretty clear we really need an AI rework to make hunting better than what we have. Just take away animals running in combat (because that re-aggro bug is mandatory to hunt many creatures, but just isn't a fun mechanic which it has effectively become) until that fix goes through.

Yeah that's devs true fallacy that they should fix. They never do the easy fixes but always aim for some huge rework which most often ends up being even worse.
I somewhat understand that they try to avoid "micromanaging" all mechanics, but they should reconsider where they put the border. I think making animals flee.. less would be relatively quick and easy fix for time being, because I'm pretty sure that animal AI rework is still quite far away, but people are still playing...

[VDZ]

The reality is that humans hunted in creative, devious ways, and no mammoth is going to make it out of a mountain pass with a dozen butt naked, half starving dudes with a dozen sharp sticks each.

I think the big takeaway here is that even ancient humans cheesed animals in real life. So at least as long as "[t]he H&H game world attempts -- to no small an extent -- to simulate events and processes of the real world in a digitalized form", it is inevitable that hearthlings will cheese animals to death, and any change to try and prevent it either would move away from this ideal (none of the mentioned mechanics make any sense immersion-wise), be futile, or, most commonly, both. I think the only truly effective way to prevent cheesing would be to limit the ways hearthlings can interact with animals, which goes against the spirit of the game. Anything else is just playing whack-a-mole, only addressing the newest cheese meta every time before it moves on to the next cheese.

[bmjclark]

Nodes are fun to discover, but the scouting bots are an issue. Node migration (or even completely random qualities) would fix that. Give strider a way to see quality from afar while we're at it.

I honestly think I'd have a lot less issues with nodes if it was the difference between q200 and q300 instead of the difference between q60 and q320+ like it is currently.

> most changes
> cites three

Myeah, idk, bub.

Other than these 3 changes, hunting is largely the same mechanically as legacy though? There's more animals and more content but the mechanics of it are largely the same