Why the current hunger/feasting system SUCKS

[APXEOLOG]

Yeah. Not many people out there who go "I'm so content I just have to say something about it!"

My contribution to the discussion is that it seems very strange to have a progression from hearthlings having stats in the tens to stats in the thousands just from eating. I have no idea what lore or gameplay rationale there is for there being such a huge gap between new and old characters. Is it just 'for progression'? Does it go back to some sort of MUD tradition? Anyway, if it weren't for that then it wouldn't be such a big deal.

The thing is, you don't really need stats in thousands.
Having 400 green stat is enough for max gilding chance if I remember correctly, so 200 white all attributes in every stat is enough for the crafter character (assuming you will swap gear depending on the tasks). Having 400 white all attributes will be comfortable to play and will be enough to be a crafter for the top industrial village. (You can go higher for gemcutting, but that's not really a requirement).
For the miner you need a higher amount, probably around 800-1k STR to dig on lvl9 (depending on your gear), but you only care about a single attribute.
The rest professions do not even require any meaningful amount of stats (there are some local requirements like dex for silkmaking, but they are not high).

Only fighters can scale attributes infinitely, simply because they are fighting against each other and not against ingame mechanics. But even those, as mentioned in this thread, usually have around 500-800 fighting-related stats and do not go higher.

There are only a few people who go for stats in thousands and they are basically doing it because they are no-lifers, not because this is a requirement for something.

[SnuggleSnail]

Most of the time those "datasets" are aggregated by "hardcore" players from other "hardcore" players (those who use certain add-ons

You can sort WoW's parses to be only normal dungeons which no tryhard player has any reason to do, then exclude non-pug so practically all of the time it's recording 4 randoms and still see the same numbers +/- like 3%.

You could also just go to a class hall, manually inspect people/count, exclude people with difficult achievements/good gear/etc and still that the ratio is so one sided no matter how you slide it that you can get a solid P value off of a tiny sample size.

I know this is like a fallacy or something but legitimately trying to make the argument that most people don't try to min/max in MMOs a little bit means you're either retarded or disingenuous and there is no middle ground.

Are you just one of those people that claims shit without looking into it at all expecting nobody else to? Like yesterday when you said a tiny portion of WoW's playerbase is on PVP servers, then 2 seconds of googled showed it's ~64.7%

[APXEOLOG]

I know this is like a fallacy or something but legitimately trying to make the argument that most people don't try to min/max in MMOs a little bit means you're either retarded or disingenuous and there is no middle ground.

There is a difference between "a little min/max" and "everyone will only eat the most possibly efficient way" that's mentioned in this thread. The "little min/max" is choosing a couple of proper recipes out of available and discarding unrelated food instead of simply eating every berry you spot.

On another note, I doubt WoW can be considered a good example. I think only hardcore fans are still playing it, those are not casual or average by any mean

[SnuggleSnail]

I'm a purist, meaning no bots, no alts. I know, I know, "masochist" etc.

Terraforming repeatedly SCREAMS at me "you should be using a throwaway character for this". Everything about it suggests that my main character doing it is shooting myself in the foot, digging out the bullet, and shooting the other foot. I require flat space for buildings, and I like to inhabit rough terrain to reduce the risk of vandalism/theft (not really required anymore with how palisades and visitor gates work, but old habits die hard). Early game, I'm stuffing whatever food is available to me down my throat just so I can continue playing.

Working my ass off should be making me hungry. It's absurd that you get no hunger from hard labor but dying is an instant reset to full.

Is this guy "a little min/max" or "everyone will only eat the most possibly efficient way"?

I used to think you were kinda smart, so I guess I'll just assume you're disingenuous instead of a moron? This is the kind of thing that would make me follow you around while invisible for the first few weeks if I were an admin. If you're not an idiot/trolling for the sake of it you clearly have something up your sleeve.

[APXEOLOG]

I'm a purist, meaning no bots, no alts. I know, I know, "masochist" etc.

Terraforming repeatedly SCREAMS at me "you should be using a throwaway character for this". Everything about it suggests that my main character doing it is shooting myself in the foot, digging out the bullet, and shooting the other foot. I require flat space for buildings, and I like to inhabit rough terrain to reduce the risk of vandalism/theft (not really required anymore with how palisades and visitor gates work, but old habits die hard). Early game, I'm stuffing whatever food is available to me down my throat just so I can continue playing.

Working my ass off should be making me hungry. It's absurd that you get no hunger from hard labor but dying is an instant reset to full.

Is this guy "a little min/max" or "everyone will only eat the most possibly efficient way"?

I don't see any min/max in this guy. The little min/max would be to spend a bit of time at night to pick a full inventory of crickets and roast them. That's what I am doing every world while digging, chopping, and paving with my main without any alts or bots

[Dawidio123]

I don't see any min/max in this guy. The little min/max would be to spend a bit of time at night to pick a full inventory of crickets and roast them. That's what I am doing every world while digging, chopping, and paving with my main without any alts or bots

Grashoppers are heavily biome dependent, last world we had to eat fucking grub grubs because finding grasshoppers required us to go to another part of the continent (even with good biomes, for the amount we had to terraform, it would not be enough, we went through A LOT of tables of grub grubs just to set up for our village), and that's basically 1% a pop (no we don't carry tables around when we are fighting), or something like 0.6 with an early table.
Terraforming with anything but an alt is not just a waste of hunger, but also a waste of time since it could be done in the background on an alt, while you actually play the game you want to play with your main (unless your spectrum makes you like terraforming then go for it), it's literally shooting yourself in the foot and being like nah it's not that bad i can bandage it up and jump on the other leg to move.

[TheServant]

• Killing yourself to reset hunger is meta/very effective, and nobody wants to do that
• Satiations makes it most effective (by a LOT) to eat very small portions of food very consistently, people who only play on weekends or even only once a day are kinda fucked on stats even if they put in the same effort
• Hunger means that eating 'bad' foods usually hurts your ability to gain stats/is a noob trap/encourages degenerate behavior like only eating troll/whale foods being insanely effective
• Playing the game makes you weaker, because most activities cause energy drain>eating for energy>fucked hunger>less stats. This encourages you to either not play the game, or more often just use alts for everything
• It's complicated, and a large part of stat disparity likely comes from people not abusing the system well enough even tho they're putting in the hours. Lots of people running around with 200 stats that have played for 6 months
• It heavily encourages alts/specialized characters. If I eat 10 pieces of dext food it may as well prevent me from eating 10 pieces of strength food, meaning being a fighter/crafter is extremely discouraged unlike world 10/11/12/13
• Hunger forces you to not eat the kinds of food you like making, and instead eat the 3-5ish most efficient recipes only (ironically the inverse of what satiations were supposed to do)
• There being outlier recipes that give drastically more FEPs matters too much/is too impactful when you don't find them

This is good input. Most players i've met who dropped the game, dropped because of it being convoluted, the game still the best i've played, it just need some polishing to shine. We need to simplify things and optimize them, Jorbtar. Although i don't know why someone as Snail do such posts being who he is.

“If you seek tranquillity, do less.” Or (more accurately) do what’s essential—what the logos of a social being requires, and in the requisite way. Which brings a double satisfaction: to do less, better. Because most of what we say and do is not essential. If you can eliminate it, you’ll have more time, and more tranquillity. Ask yourself at every moment, “Is this necessary?” But we need to eliminate unnecessary assumptions as well. To eliminate the unnecessary actions that follow.”

[SnuggleSnail]

The current feasting system sucks dick. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

[vatas]

The current feasting system sucks dick. Thank you for coming to my ted talk.

While I do have to commend devs for adding the option to gain energy without killing your hunger, this is just a work-around instead of a proper system-level fix.

Also, while I remember people being most vocal about it during past two years, I assume someone pointed out that labor/slave alts are mandatory (for serious play) with the new system all the way back in 2015.

[SnuggleSnail]

The ability to eat food purely for energy has been maybe the single best update for me since I've started playing. On par with the removal of anvil spiraling, or the addition of UA/MC equalization, or the lowering of the red hand timer.

It's sad that actually coding it probably took Lofty 5 minutes meanwhile we had to suffer through that shit for years. Many such cases. So much low hanging fruit. Treesex & needless siege/combat reworked prioritized.