Per Jorb's request: Austin VS WB Discourse

[WowGain]

tell me you dont socialize with other people unless its over the internet without telling me

"Fanboi"
"Good day sir."
""""

[WowGain]

I already slapped that cringe community note thing on the first post, but I guess I'll advocate for the other side as well.

Why wouldn't Misa/TheServant just make a public announcement along the lines of "this was just a bad joke that ended up going too far, I apologize?"

Reasons for being so stubborn could include:
1) Apparently admission of fault, of any kind, can lead to criminal liability in some jurisdictions (I highly doubt it applies here.)
2) Even in wider internet spaces, apologizing has been often taken as a sign of weakness and call to dogpile the target further.

Also, a "joke" (especially this distasteful and extended) is still a valid reason to make a personal choice to not associate with someone.

it genuinely makes you look like a shitty person to carry water for an unrepentant pedophile who doesnt even care to defend his own actions.

aside-
i know internet retards care more about dumb shit where they think internet forums are like the halls of congress and require ABSOLUTE DECORUM!! but it genuinely baffles me to an insane degree that there can be people so incapable of self-awareness that they dont realize that they're saying, right now, that its more offensive to be rude about expressing your disgust in a child rapist than it is to actually be a child rapist. maybe if they thought that much they wouldn't be so stupid though LOL

[vatas]

he said he fucked raped a 15 year old when he was in his 20s you fucking lunatic, how do you propose we report him to his local authorities off of this?
"hello, brazil? misa on the haven and hearth forums admitted to being a child rapist!"
god you people are retarded

it genuinely makes you look like a shitty person to carry water for an unrepentant pedophile who doesnt even care to defend his own actions.

I can admit that "redirect complaints to proper authorities" is... less than ideal solution.

But what the hell am I supposed to do? Set a precedent that (originally off-platform) shitposts and hearsay are a reason to condone an angry mob witch hunt?

If all your posts stem from genuine concern, why not contain this to single thread with a neutral title (not a clickbait title "Whatever Bay" as if it was a recruitment post for, or discussion about, said faction) where you explain your concerns in a civil manner and present all the evidence. Which again is just a collection of screenshots where a user presumably just makes (distasteful) jokes.

Is Jorb really supposed to set the bar for "excommunication" that low?

[Dawidio123]

Is Jorb really supposed to set the bar for "excommunication" that low?

Would you say that admitting to REDACTED (while legal, VERY distasteful and morally dubious to say the least) on discord, then arguing there about it for like and hour or two. Then it's brought to the forums in now deleted thread which only a few posts got screencapped but if you read it you know it was A LOT worse than what he said on discord, and btw the devs probably do have access to that very thread so i think that should also count (amongst other things misa said in there is "age is just a number", "I like them fresh", "I prefer women in the peaks of their careers and you prefer hags", etc.). Now is it possible it's just an elaborate troll? Sure it is possible, but honestly for someone to go THAT far in defending it (and to start with, as you can see in his discord messages, I don't think he thought there was anything wrong about it, only when people pointed out it's fucked up he started getting defensive) it's really hard to believe it was just a troll.

I don't think the bar is really low in this case. Also it's not hearsay if the defendant admits to it, that's an admission of guilt, even if he later is like "oh i was jk".
And why would Austin contain it in a "neutral" thread that wouldn't be associated with WB? I think people that might consider joining WB (for example minors that come from steam release) should know about this. If it was a troll they can laugh at it (I don't think it's a laughing matter but y'know kids do be edgy), if it was serious they will at least be warned.

[Zentetsuken]

If all your posts stem from genuine concern, why not contain this to single thread with a neutral title (not a clickbait title "Whatever Bay" as if it was a recruitment post for, or discussion about, said faction) where you explain your concerns in a civil manner and present all the evidence. Which again is just a collection of screenshots where a user presumably just makes (distasteful) jokes.

After reading those screenshots I think everybody can agree that they are not jokes. Didn't he say something like it's a cultural difference? That is not a joke, he was just genuinely explaining his actions.

I think you make a strong point and I agree with you, but the faction has banded together and chose this as their hill to die on, and are currently running a campaign to shitpost and argue and bicker all over the forum while they 'advertise themselves' for new players.

Just look at noidy, somebody who was just a mod, brazenly necroing a bunch of old threads to spam this subforum with their faction propaganda for obvious trolly reasons. It's not genuine. They are just stirring the pot.

You are right that it should be about the individual, but WB are the ones who have chosen to make this about them as a whole unfortunately.

[TheServant]

Why wouldn't Misa/TheServant just make a public announcement along the lines of "this was just a bad joke that ended up going too far, I apologize?"

Srsly? XD

You need to understand a few things

1. Literally no one besides their small group care what they write on forum, it's just scroll down. They are yappers wearing nappy
2. Two loudest barking doggies were perma banned from community discord, additionally they were doxxing, had own pedo drama (which no one mention there for suspicious reasons and I am to lazy to find the thread in hell or maybe it was moved to even worse subfolder), made life threating sentences etc. 1 year ago and are mad until now

Anyway, besides that
One of the most important parts of this game is recognizability. Doesn't matter how you reach that cuz no one care what some random from internet thinks.

Misa was just a lil boy who I slap 2 years ago (ss attached) but now he is #1 the most recognizable player across discord/forum/steam community. For people who don't know and are clueless - you don't know KEKW we have the most fun out of you for most of time for almost a year and I hope we will laugh at you during w16 as well.


You ask about Misa in our socials the response is.
- Team member of the most winning PvP team in our scrims
- Alchemy website developer
- God of shenanigans

Additionally
1. Faction slayer
2. Wipe Squad Core
3. Botma client maker
4. Better miner than me

The best you can do is stick to this thread which everyone can easily mute and keep the conversation there meanwhile leaving other parts of forum for mentally healthy people.

Thanks i bet you will have some luck mining this world. I still remember our interaction before w15, this game is all about the memories you have and friends you make, and i got plenty of that! I just hope i dont drop almost 20kgs this time

ps: This screenshot is clearly edited cause i would never have such big openings.

[Luno]

I have a sincere question for the ones defending Misa:

Suppose he had done it to a 7 yo instead, and it was also legal here. Would you still be on his side?

[Zampfeo]

I already slapped that cringe community note thing on the first post, but I guess I'll advocate for the other side as well.

Why wouldn't Misa/TheServant just make a public announcement along the lines of "this was just a bad joke that ended up going too far, I apologize?"

Reasons for being so stubborn could include:
1) Apparently admission of fault, of any kind, can lead to criminal liability in some jurisdictions (I highly doubt it applies here.)
2) Even in wider internet spaces, apologizing has been often taken as a sign of weakness and call to dogpile the target further.

Also, a "joke" (especially this distasteful and extended) is still a valid reason to make a personal choice to not associate with someone.

I am just observer here, but as far as I can tell, it is not a joke, but also not illegal in his country (and apparently socially acceptable?), so he doesn't "get' why it is an issue.

This, however, is not a valid excuse to be accepted by this community. Despite all the different nationalities and cultures that play this game, at the end of the day HnH is a game developed in Sweden, written for English audiences, and generally governed by Western morals. And, despite many countries/US States having similar ages of consent, Your age/2+7 is basically what's socially acceptable. Grooming is a real concern for us. Even as a 30 year old man, I've had some really weird encounters with people in the community.

I was 15 myself when I first started playing Haven and I'm sure there's plenty of minors still playing these days. Minors are one of the few demographics that have the time to devote to Haven, after all. Someone who thinks getting sexual with a 15 year old is OK and is/was in the easiest-to-join faction for newbies is problematic.

[Vraatjuh]

I have a sincere question for the ones defending Misa:

Suppose he had done it to a 7 yo instead, and it was also legal here. Would you still be on his side?

Let it be clear that I am no way defending his actions/behaviour, but I am just wondering where we should draw the line as a community. What if he was 19 and she was 15, would it still be completely wrong or already less wrong? Do we follow Swedish law, American law or Russian law? Do we draw the line at pedophelia or are we also going to exclude people who commit other very questionable life choices. Is it enough to take a stance as a community to exclude them or do we want them removed from the game altogether?

I've seen plenty cyberbullying, blatant racism and nazism that would be considered a crime in my country, but in this community it is almost deemed normal. The way loli girls are sexualized seems to be fine behaviour, even though in my eyes is quite concerning as well.

If the argument is creating a safe space for teenagers then maybe it's not only sexual predotarial behaviour we should be targetting. But for some reason this is the only thing ever questioned here.

[mulamishne]

Holy fuck, ex mod nonceck with the 'all publicity is good publicity stance includes being a pedophile'.