Is the game dying already due to group/faction murder hobos?

[azrid]

Salem skillshot system was much better that what we currently have, I wish they'd give it another go...

It was a mistake not letting people try it out themselves.

[Kaios]

If Haven's a PvP game then why PvP is the least fun aspect of it?

Because they got talked down from adding a great combat system(salem combat) by a small group of people. I think the reason was "you can bot this ". I don't buy it.

I thought the concern with it was related to input lag or server lag or something. That's the point I was trying to make before with clicks and movement but others said that's wrong. If there's no input lag for movement then I would think skill based aiming abilities should be fine too.

I guess it might be the case that a script could allow for better reaction time and aiming than a real person but I don't really have much insight on that. If that is truly the reason for the lack of a skill-based system then by my estimation we are going to have terrible combat forever. Devs are unwilling or unable to do anything about botting and they allow players free reign when it comes to client access and manipulation. If they aren't going to address those issues and then claim they are the reasons for not being able to implement something, that is honestly just poor game development.

[Simbirskiy]

there's a thousand niche mechanics abused by only the most experienced and informed players whose sole purpose in the game is to make the experience markedly worse for everyone else.

Just like in a real war!

In fact, I disagree with the position of almost all the commentators here.

Let's start with the position of Snail and his friends: "Learn to fight back."

For Hermits this is often impossible, as well as for groups of players who are not focused on the race for quality.
HH is not a game based on pure skill. CS, Dota - put players on absolutely equal conditions in terms of game mechanics.
Here, a better sword - and you are already stronger than your opponent. If you have more melee combat, you are stronger than your opponent. And you will have more of it if you have a subscription or a verified account.

But on the other hand, there are many ways to simply not engage in combat. See another player with a sword and hussar wings? Throw your damn blueberries and HF the base.

The game would be boring and not so attractive if it did not have a PvP element.

[TheServant]

For Hermits this is often impossible, as well as for groups of players who are not focused on the race for quality.
HH is not a game based on pure skill. CS, Dota - put players on absolutely equal conditions in terms of game mechanics.
Here, a better sword - and you are already stronger than your opponent. If you have more melee combat, you are stronger than your opponent.

thats some poor logic. i am immortal in dota, i am sure with my skill i can have more lvl farm gold items and punish opponent. same thing in haven, i have more skill more stats and punish opponent.

in haven u learn to run and drink you can escape enemy if you have some combat stats, with equalization is very easy. you spend 500k lp for 100 combat stats, to have 200 you need to spend 2kk. u cant have 1/4 LP of enemy?

[Kaios]

with equalization is very easy. you spend 500k lp for 100 combat stats, to have 200 you need to spend 2kk. u cant have 1/4 LP of enemy?

That's fair, I basically understand how equalization of stats works but what about quality? And even though the stats may be "equalized" to some degree, does one person still have an advantage over another such as in terms of less cooldown time due to their agility level? Because that's a pretty big factor to take into consideration during combat as well. I don't think we have enough information, or at least the general population doesn't, to make such determinations regarding the state of combat. Most of the time the players who have a full understanding of how those mechanics work and are preaching to others that they should learn and practice them don't often take the time themselves to provide any detailed explanations. Even the devs do a really poor job of explaining the mechanics properly.

It's a pain to have to search through a bunch of patch note threads that are scattered throughout the announcements in no particular order, trying to find the various fragments in each thread that relate to combat changes (or any other changes for that matter) and figuring out if they are still relevant or not. They need to keep better details of current mechanics and any changes, updates, or removals.

[TheServant]

with equalization is very easy. you spend 500k lp for 100 combat stats, to have 200 you need to spend 2kk. u cant have 1/4 LP of enemy?

That's fair, I basically understand how equalization of stats works but what about quality? And even though the stats may be "equalized" to some degree, does one person still have an advantage over another such as in terms of less cooldown time due to their agility level? Because that's a pretty big factor to take into consideration during combat as well. I don't think we have enough information, or at least the general population doesn't, to make such determinations regarding the state of combat. Most of the time the players who have a full understanding of how those mechanics work and are preaching to others that they should learn and practice them don't often take the time themselves to provide any detailed explanations. Even the devs do a really poor job of explaining the mechanics properly.

It's a pain to have to search through a bunch of patch note threads that are scattered throughout the announcements in no particular order, trying to find the various fragments in each thread that relate to combat changes (or any other changes for that matter) and figuring out if they are still relevant or not. They need to keep better details of current mechanics and any changes, updates, or removals.

i mainly talk about combat stats for running. The LP stuff is not really important cause its easy to be inside equalization, str and con are the most important ones, 1v1 doesnt happen for agility to be as relevant as con and str, i have bad stats (150~) and am in similar level to most of fighters. Most of the times someone get kod is cause some mistake in movement/drinking or less comonly, button pressing. Its fucked up yes that you miss a lot of things in small patch notes. New players can have better stats and still get blasted easily cause experience is the most important factor. At this point is just having a table and eating sausages.

[Kaios]

When the two options are either someone messing up like you said and allowing a big hit in or slowly chipping away at their health, of course strength and con matter the most. More strength equals more damage which I would argue matters more in how it impacts chip damage from punches rather than big damage from a weapon. It basically ends up being a battle of attrition if it's not over immediately, even with all else being equal (unlikely) the one with more water, food, strength, and HP tends to win.

Though I still think players should be considering agility and cooldown time, it's really as important as the speed of the player itself in my opinion. I recall weapon quality having some effect on cooldown time as well, perhaps only for weapon attacks specifically, but of course I'd have to find the patch notes that would confirm that was or is still true and/or test it out.

[Apocoreo]

I was really hoping some fuck wasn't going to bring that up. How do you test the mettle of an Empire without warfare? The fuck is the point of anything other than an idealistic commune without force.

Can't comment about salem

I am glad you finally found time to read the About page you mentioned before and as you pointed there is nothing about PvP or as you try to imply it is hidden in part "Having progressed far enough, players will, in time, be able to organize themselves into societies, from simple tribes and villages, progressing through republics, nation states and, ultimately, empires."

How do you test the mettle of an Empire without warfare?

Inability, or unwillingness to interpret text beyond the literal? I've played nation building games without warfare, they are a poor representation, and failed simulators.

Since the 12+ years this game has had PvP is clearly not enough for you people, here's something solid, recent, and from both the playerbase and devs; straight from the steam store page. This is now how the majority of new player are introduced to the game:



Also lol @ that comma at the end of the summary

[pitchkor]

I'm doing the beginners quest where I need to drink water, I walk around for an hour looking for water,

finally found ocean, can't drink because it's salt water, walk around again for a while looking for portable water,

found pond with water flowing over the edge down into ocean, also salt water - uninstall

[azrid]

If Haven's a PvP game then why PvP is the least fun aspect of it?

Because they got talked down from adding a great combat system(salem combat) by a small group of people. I think the reason was "you can bot this ". I don't buy it.

I thought the concern with it was related to input lag or server lag or something.

Both are true.
Games that have this style of combat do have cheaters who use bots to react faster.
Thats why league of legends now has such a high level and intrusive anticheat system.
Its also true that you will get an advantage over others with better ping. You can test that out yourself in salem combat if you have a friend who has different ping from you.

All that being said I'd still take that kind of combat over what we have now.
In other pvp games where I have encountered players who cheat the system with botted reactions I don't quit because of it. The combat is still fun and engaging.

Going full turn based combat is the only way you remove reaction and ping issues.