as a silver lining, nidbanes cannot be sent on behalf of rageless characters, though most people seem to think that nidbanes are worthless opponents anyways. i would rather that there be 2 kinds of gates than to make taking rage a fools errand or the strict domain of some alt.vatas wrote:In case anyone is Out-of-the-Loop on why the concept of "rage-less fighter" is considered such an issue: they basically introduce a major "free-rider problem" into PvP.
Because of unchanged core mechanics, it's kind of important (or outright necessary) to gain aggro on every target (that isn't explicitly a friend/ally) and this means people can insert themselves into a fight without Rage, as opponents will simply initiate the combat relation(s) for them.
"Just don't aggro everyone then, isn't that obvious?" Problem is, there's absolutely zero indication on whether someone has rage or not. You're basically asking people to not fight, or blindly guess.
This would be bad enough, but let us take a look at why people don't want to buy Rage. (Spoiler alert: it's not the 50k LP cost.)
Rage has a massive opportunity cost by permanently "cursing" the character with "can't walk through a Heavy Gate while in combat, even if it's just PvE" - while a "Rageless fighter" can run through even while in combat with other players!
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Girth
- Posts: 65
- Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2025 6:30 pm
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
another stupid day of my worthless hermit life
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vatas
- Posts: 5255
- Joined: Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:34 am
- Location: Suomi Finland Perkele
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
I can't blame devs (that much) for trying to get rid of two different gate types. People kept trying to build airlocks except they did it completely wrong, like having the visitor gate as the outer gate (basically pointless?), or both gates be normal gates (this one could have situational usefulness, but also a MASSIVE security hole unless you have them on an area that's deliberately assumed to be not-automatically-safe and is separated from the main base with a visitor gate.)
On the other hand, would it have been impossible to have any kind of in-game documentation on how this crap worked?
Meanwhile with Rage, it definitely shouldn't have a permanent downside attached to it. It was already tried back in w11 where it disabled the KO Protection which may have sounded good on paper, except it had the exact same problem as the current gate restriction - it also applied to PvE. You basically couldn't do Dungeons with characters that had Rage (unless you were really into recreating the WoW Classic Hardcore experience in Haven.)
Also you can just maintain a "rage bank" of however many LP it takes to unlock Rage, completely sidestepping the penalty until you get into a situation where you really want the ability to aggro another player.
If I was in Jorb's shoes, the next "6 month" World's experiment would be to have Rage be 1. with zero permanent downsides (also possibly very cheap while keeping other Crime skills expensive) 2. have it work somewhat like Murderous Rage in the sense it needs to be activated, it can't be toggled off willy-nilly, and while it's active there's some downside/tradeoff.
On the other hand, would it have been impossible to have any kind of in-game documentation on how this crap worked?
Meanwhile with Rage, it definitely shouldn't have a permanent downside attached to it. It was already tried back in w11 where it disabled the KO Protection which may have sounded good on paper, except it had the exact same problem as the current gate restriction - it also applied to PvE. You basically couldn't do Dungeons with characters that had Rage (unless you were really into recreating the WoW Classic Hardcore experience in Haven.)
Also you can just maintain a "rage bank" of however many LP it takes to unlock Rage, completely sidestepping the penalty until you get into a situation where you really want the ability to aggro another player.
If I was in Jorb's shoes, the next "6 month" World's experiment would be to have Rage be 1. with zero permanent downsides (also possibly very cheap while keeping other Crime skills expensive) 2. have it work somewhat like Murderous Rage in the sense it needs to be activated, it can't be toggled off willy-nilly, and while it's active there's some downside/tradeoff.
Haven and Hearth Wiki (Maintained by volunteers - test/verify when practical. Forum thread
Basic Claim Safety (And what you’re doing wrong
TL:;DR: Build a Palisade with only Visitor gates.)
Combat Guide (Overview, PVE, PVP) (Includes how to escape/minimize risk of getting killed.)
Basic Claim Safety (And what you’re doing wrong
TL:;DR: Build a Palisade with only Visitor gates.)
Combat Guide (Overview, PVE, PVP) (Includes how to escape/minimize risk of getting killed.)
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Regulus2424
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2015 3:48 pm
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
really? right in front of my joy of discovery?vatas wrote:in-game documentation
W6 - giga noob hermit
W7 - giga noob hermit, part 2
W12 - hermit
W13 - sprucecap extraordinaire from Magnanimous Magistrates
W14 - PotFriendJr from Doom Fortress
W15 - He Who Was from Gnomes Gone Gangsta
W16 - Marazhai from Wildfox Bread/Hogwarts
W16.1 - Knave from Pimp My Wheelchair
W16.2 - Knave-Errant from Ett gäng dumma smileys
W7 - giga noob hermit, part 2
W12 - hermit
W13 - sprucecap extraordinaire from Magnanimous Magistrates
W14 - PotFriendJr from Doom Fortress
W15 - He Who Was from Gnomes Gone Gangsta
W16 - Marazhai from Wildfox Bread/Hogwarts
W16.1 - Knave from Pimp My Wheelchair
W16.2 - Knave-Errant from Ett gäng dumma smileys
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SnuggleSnail
- Posts: 3616
- Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:04 pm
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
at some point once they've repeated the same mistake and not learned anything enough times you have to accept they're just monkeys with typewritersvatas wrote:Meanwhile with Rage, it definitely shouldn't have a permanent downside attached to it. It was already tried back in w11 where it disabled the KO Protection which may have sounded good on paper, except it had the exact same problem as the current gate restriction
there are some hard to fix, possibly unfixable problems with the core concept of haven, but the overwhelming majority of impactful problems could be fixed with 2 minute variable changes if the person at the wheel was conscious. 10 years of OCO and tree yaoi instead
5? 10? years of begging for energy food to not rape your hunger. Such an easy fix that in world 11 they added it accidentally as a bug, then after everybody loved it they removed it
"We specialize in permadeath and forum drama." -man who removed death and deletes every drama thread
http://www.seatribe.se/
http://www.seatribe.se/
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CCKpoppin
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Sun May 10, 2026 12:32 am
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
*Gnomes with a large and strange bunch of mysterious runesSnuggleSnail wrote: at some point once they've repeated the same mistake and not learned anything enough times you have to accept they're just monkeys with typewriters
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Frogg
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2026 12:26 am
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
"aiming for next week" bros... I don't feel so good.
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Frogg
- Posts: 119
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2026 12:26 am
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
This one is going to be big. I can smell it. 
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Robben_DuMarsch
- Posts: 2646
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:58 am
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sMartins
- Posts: 3440
- Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:21 pm
- Location: Italy
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
Trust the process ... By 2050 these guys will craft a whole new world ... irl.
Make friends with the other crabs or try to escape the bucket.
I'd hardly call anything the Bible of our times. » special thanks to MagicManICT
I only logged in to say this sentence. by neeco » 30 Oct 2018, 02:57
Default Client, Best Client!
I'd hardly call anything the Bible of our times. » special thanks to MagicManICT
I only logged in to say this sentence. by neeco » 30 Oct 2018, 02:57
Default Client, Best Client!
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524u
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:23 pm
Re: Game Development: Gongalong!
Loftar, you brilliant intellectual human being, please lock Jorb in a room, sit with him, maybe on lap, and create world 16.2.
Make it a short, 2 months world to >>TEST<< changes for example different time speed, maybe change required time to make steel (without ruining sleep schedule), then launch W17 with new content, like 5 new birds.
A lot of people are waiting for a new world. What are you waiting for? Another crop? Food? Pillar?
W16.1 was supposed to be a test server, it's already 6 months
New world = more subs = money
Make it a short, 2 months world to >>TEST<< changes for example different time speed, maybe change required time to make steel (without ruining sleep schedule), then launch W17 with new content, like 5 new birds.
A lot of people are waiting for a new world. What are you waiting for? Another crop? Food? Pillar?
W16.1 was supposed to be a test server, it's already 6 months
New world = more subs = money
B)