Credos Need Urgent fixing

[azrid]

Also when a game has RNG someone is going to be the biggest loser.

There is many way to mitigate this problem:

• Make RNG high only in area of game that is not critical to competition.
• Reduce variance between good roll and bad roll in term of how effective it is.
• Do not use true RNG, and instead use system that implements changing odds based on previous outcomes.

To argue against that I would say the contrast of getting a miserable roll versus a crazy high roll makes you appreciate the good times more.
There is a real danger of losing that feeling.

I do agree with you though.

[Kaios]

If I am a new player hermiting or starting a new village 6 months in to a world and I am doing quarryman credo and need to visit a lvl 4 cave that is still going to be just as difficult as it was for players in the first week too.

Wrong. By that time you can buy higher q things to catch up faster.

Also when a game has RNG someone is going to be the biggest loser. Sorry it had to be you this time.

???

What do you mean that’s wrong, unless a new player has access to someone else’s mineholes then they still need to gather the materials or they need to gather things to trade. Your point about higher quality doesn’t even make sense in this context.

[Ysh]

Also when a game has RNG someone is going to be the biggest loser.

There is many way to mitigate this problem:

• Make RNG high only in area of game that is not critical to competition.
• Reduce variance between good roll and bad roll in term of how effective it is.
• Do not use true RNG, and instead use system that implements changing odds based on previous outcomes.

To argue against that I would say the contrast of getting a miserable roll versus a crazy high roll makes you appreciate the good times more.
There is a real danger of losing that feeling.

I do agree with you though.

Yes, there is something to be said for using random to bring excitement and I think many game use this mechanism to good effect. Obvious example is in game where you kill some creature and it has small chance to give rare loot. I think difference between this system and credo in Haven is baseline result. In these other game, even if I do not get a good roll for Really Rare Item™, I will still get other things for kill this creature (e.g. experience points, crafting materials, gold pieces, etc.). In Haven credo, if I get bad roll, I am ''losing progess'' since I ''must'' abandon this quest.

Other thing is that I have contingency for this item in most games. Even if I kill a thousand of this creature and never get Really Rare Item™, maybe I will have gotten enough of the common drop to sell and then buy this rare item. Player have alternative means to progress to this goal of Really Rare Item™. In Haven credo, there is no alternative. You pray that you get good roll and can move forward, and not that you get bad roll and move backward. Player feel like he have little agency here and he will not like this I think.

I suppose it can be added to the above list, ''ability to circumvent RNG with more predictable, though perhaps slightly longer, method of acquisition.'' In general, I think player want to feel like his action in game is having some positive effect for him. He want to know that with every action, he is becoming closer to his goal. Otherwise he feels like he simply spins his wheels.

[azrid]

If I am a new player hermiting or starting a new village 6 months in to a world and I am doing quarryman credo and need to visit a lvl 4 cave that is still going to be just as difficult as it was for players in the first week too.

Wrong. By that time you can buy higher q things to catch up faster.

Also when a game has RNG someone is going to be the biggest loser. Sorry it had to be you this time.

???

What do you mean that’s wrong, unless a new player has access to someone else’s mineholes then they still need to gather the materials or they need to gather things to trade. Your point about higher quality doesn’t even make sense in this context.

Increased food quality from higher q tools and an easier time killing animals because of cheaper weapons.
You will be able to buy pigs for easy str food too.
Not sure if you tried coming back to the game last world during the end. People that did this could skip a lot of grind everyone else went through with cheap high q tools.

[Kaios]

I still don’t understand how this allows a new player to skip over the grind. It’s a bit different if I’m a returning player coming in to a village with a developed infrastructure but a new player does not usually have that opportunity.

Let’s say I trade for a q100 pick, sure I can mine more easily now but how does this improve the chances of finding black ore, leaf ore, etc. or how do better quality tools and equipment help deal with those types of quests? Genuinely not understanding your perspective here.

[azrid]

You skip the grind joining late in the world by buying a pair of pigs and a decent q pick axe.
You will be able to build mineholes to lower levels faster.
Lower levels have a higher chance of black ore.
Character development gets faster as the world gets older.

[Kaios]

I see, so as a new player coming in to a developed world I'm simply supposed to buy better stuff than what players in a new world would start with to skip over the issues that those same players had to deal with initially and somehow the underlying issue suddenly becoming more manageable makes it no longer an issue at all... Okay...

[Field]

In general, I think player want to feel like his action in game is having some positive effect for him. He want to know that with every action, he is becoming closer to his goal. Otherwise he feels like he simply spins his wheels.

Yes. This.

[azrid]

I see, so as a new player coming in to a developed world I'm simply supposed to buy better stuff than what players in a new world would start with to skip over the issues that those same players had to deal with initially and somehow the underlying issue suddenly becoming more manageable makes it no longer an issue at all... Okay...

Yes you will spend less time on the tasks with a better developed character. Its pretty neat.
You can even buy abyssal insights or get them with your group yourself to skip credo quests.

[Field]

Added this to OP to support my case.

Similar thread here.
Other issues with credos similar to this:
- by shubla
- by displaced
- Experience a lore event by Amanda44 (huge effort, no progress)
- "Credo progression doesn't feel good" by Valnar

And no, I don't want to rush through credos, I don't feel like "study X curio" quests don't belong. I want proper balancing of the quests with proper effort -> gain. The way this system is made around "abandon the quest" is not a good one. I thought of it as a quick fix to already existing problem but not a permanent solution. This is as sloppy as key system in ant dungeons.