A Plea for Decay (Character)

[Granger]

Inspired by this iconic quote:

Fuck off with this please, in no way shape or form is skill decay a fun mechanic.

Instead of simply dismissing everything that remotely smells like it without further thought we should explore the relative truth of that statement. Because while there might be some truth to 'skill decay not being fun', it would be bad reasoning to simply carve that in stone without having explored the side effects (and how these compare 'fun' wise) of not having it.

So we should face the question of stat decay really being less fun than:
- not being able to catch up to people who started earlier (unless pay to win to obtain stuff to boost development using tokens)
- being bored after becoming king of the hill as no contenders can ever arise and slaughtering noobs became stale
- seeing others having q1500 carrots and quitting from seeing no point in grinding for a year
- and whatever other reasons people here come up with why only a new world is fun

There is IMHO no distinction when stuffing a character on a constant basis to keep it having the highest numbers on the server, regardless if the goal is to raise the numbers (in the current system) or replacing what drains to keep them where they are (stat decay) - the effective grind is the same. It's also irrelevant what number is attached to the best item you can make, as long as it's higher than what your biggest foe can. I think this holds true at least for a comparison between the top factions.

Where the current (decay-less) system IMHO completely fails though is that it is impossible to find a balance for the whole server. We see this clearly in PvE combat where you're guaranteed to get destroyed by something, then you reach a certain level and it becomes doable but a short while after you can walk through herds of them in basically godmode, killing them left and right - the timespan where struggle with the environment is actually fun (because it's engaging) is quite short, after that it gets boring quickly. I think the same effect can be observed in PvP, given two oppenents of the same player skill the one with better gear and stats will (most likely up to guaranteed) win, always. Where is the point in grinding up crafting abilities to be able to make a qX item myself when the ones who can make it now at that quality will be able to make a qX+200 one then?

It feels like the endlessly raising numbers choke the life out of the game, it's fun a short while but after a few months it gets meaningless or depressing (depending on where on the curve you are).

I think the current system (with endlessly increasing numbers) is way less fun than one with where numbers are kept in check (by stat decay) could be.
IMHO we should try a world with stat decay (according to my calculations 0,025% of absolute level lost per ingame hour looks to give reasonable results) to find out how well it plays, preferably in concert with A Plea for Decay (World) to clean up derelict settlements.

Postscriptum: having though about this for quite some time I come to the conclusion that stat caps can not be made palateable to the average user complaining about an idea containing that word, as these seem unable to entertain an idea (to see the full benefits it would give) when triggered by keywords into a kind of pavlovian reflex that clouds their ability to think clearly.
Hence I retract everything about statcaps and instead instead suggest BUFFS.

Postscriptum 2: Charts that visualize the result can be found here.

[Aceb]

I would find it even far more depressing to see that my char went into far decay just because I wasn't able to login for whatever reasons for longer time or was unable to do so because of something. Stat cap or even making it so. Or that idea where how much stat gives You depends how much stages You pass (like 200 AGI means 200AGi, but past 200AGI, every next poin is worth 0.5 and so and so.)

[iamahh]

What is missing at this point is a way to test changes without compromising a world life span

I think HH has potential to have a classic RTS game mode, with short matches, like a hyper fast world

[skltnk]

I would find it even far more depressing to see that my char went into far decay just because I wasn't able to login for whatever reasons for longer time or was unable to do so because of something. Stat cap or even making it so. Or that idea where how much stat gives You depends how much stages You pass (like 200 AGI means 200AGi, but past 200AGI, every next poin is worth 0.5 and so and so.)

You might find even MORE depressing that "while you wasn't been able to login for whatever reasons" other players have 1000+ stats while you still have your precious 200, which means that you actually "decayed" but in a more stupid way.

[Aceb]

I would find it even far more depressing to see that my char went into far decay just because I wasn't able to login for whatever reasons for longer time or was unable to do so because of something. Stat cap or even making it so. Or that idea where how much stat gives You depends how much stages You pass (like 200 AGI means 200AGi, but past 200AGI, every next poin is worth 0.5 and so and so.)

You might find even MORE depressing that "while you wasn't been able to login for whatever reasons" other players have 1000+ stats while you still have your precious 200, which means that you actually "decayed" but in a more stupid way.

Yeah cool that other boys did not had to stop because of something and grinded far more. But having my precious 200 against 1000 is better than having like 100 instead of 200 while they have 1000. It's like double punishment.

Also I don't care that they have 1000. Numbers and stats are not everything. That's why I socialize. You will always fall behind those who have more time or min-max stuff. I know that and I accept it somewhat. Maybe one day I will be like one of those pros, maybe not. I'm playing for fun, not to be on top of the ladder.

[Granger]

But having my precious 200 against 1000 is better than having like 100 instead of 200 while they have 1000. It's like double punishment.

With 0,025% of absolute levels (not LP/FEP consumed for them) lost every ingame hour it would have taken 37 days to decay from 200 to 100.

With the difference that they wouldn't have 1000 (but most likely less) and you would be able to grind up to them should you decide to do so.

Also I don't care that they have 1000. Numbers and stats are not everything. That's why I socialize.

I don't get why you, since you don't care about numbers anyway as you write, argue against stat decay?

[loftar]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the implied argument is that the strongest players will stop playing actively and therefore decay, allowing others to catch up.

If that is so, wouldn't the others be able to catch up anyway, given that the strongest players aren't playing actively?

[Granger]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like the implied argument is that the strongest player will stop playing actively and therefore decay, allowing others to catch up.

If that is so, wouldn't the others be able to catch up anyway, given that the strongest players aren't playing actively?

The argument was that the strongest players get bored when there are is noone left to compete with them on their level (and PvE already is completely boring as they can kill anything without much or any effort) - dosn't imply that they actually quit, they could also well resort to dumbing their boredom through actively destroying the fun for the lower level players.

With the current ever increasing numbers you can't catch up to active players (that grind as hard as you), with stat decay two things would happen: absolute numbers on the server would get a ceiling (at some point the decay overwhelms grind efforts, especially should broken stuff like feasting be fixed) and one could catch up (again, with equal level of grinding) to someone because the higher statted will have to spend more on upkeep (or all, at some point).

[iamahh]

it's all about them word choices

a character achieves "maximum equilibrium" at 1000 stats

but you can buff it's calories by eating delicious food up to 2000 stats!!

[Granger]

it's all about them word choices

a character achieves "maximum equilibrium" at 1000 stats

but you optimize it's daily "enthusiasm" with "food buffs" up to 2000 stats!!

I think a quarter of it might be more reasonable... or even half of that.
Apart from that, I wouldn't care what name is tacked to it as long as it works in that matter.