Realism vs Fun

[Yolan]

Yes, I posted elsewhere the other day about how we really should lengthen the growth time of Wheat to something like a week IRL. Although, I also would like to see volume increased, storage made easier, and harvesting/grinding flour made less clicky. Basically, I think farming should be a role that caters to people who _arent_ around very much, who like a slow pace. Log on now and then, do a few little tasks, log off. Thats certainly not a favouring of realism over fun, because not many IRL farmers could afford to behave like that!

Any kind of 'window' for harvesting would suck, except a very long term 'seasonal' window.

[theTrav]

Tree replanting should be as simple as "pick pine cone->stick in ground". How do you think nature does it all by herself? Certainly without herbalist tables and treeplanter's pots.

I think Nature has a pretty complicated system using insects and birds and heat levels... She's not just sticking stuff in the ground

[Ferinex]

Tree replanting should be as simple as "pick pine cone->stick in ground". How do you think nature does it all by herself? Certainly without herbalist tables and treeplanter's pots.

I think Nature has a pretty complicated system using insects and birds and heat levels... She's not just sticking stuff in the ground

Tell that to the hundreds of baby maple trees sprouting in my lawn each year, that we have to mow over to kill. : )

[Peter]

Yes, I posted elsewhere the other day about how we really should lengthen the growth time of Wheat to something like a week IRL. Although, I also would like to see volume increased, storage made easier, and harvesting/grinding flour made less clicky. Basically, I think farming should be a role that caters to people who _arent_ around very much, who like a slow pace. Log on now and then, do a few little tasks, log off. Thats certainly not a favouring of realism over fun, because not many IRL farmers could afford to behave like that!

Any kind of 'window' for harvesting would suck, except a very long term 'seasonal' window.

Ah, I'd really like this... hm... farming for the casual players, metalmaking and mining for the middle players, and hunting and soldiering for the powergamers. I like this a lot.

[Delamore]

Why is only fun versus realism addressed, why not realism versus balance which everyone seems to forget.

[kobnach]

Why is only fun versus realism addressed, why not realism versus balance which everyone seems to forget.

Balance is actually part of fun, and was mentioned in my original post, though not stressed - e.g. with regard to the ease of clear cutting compared to the difficulty of planting trees. A one RL week delay for a newbie or new settlement to get a few wheat seeds - to replant - is also a balance issue - is it a good idea to have a new settlement unable to produce farm type foods for e.g. one RL month, without eating into their seed supply? It's not fun - plant fields, log out for a week; lather, rinse repeat - but it's also a massive game balance change in favour of not moving, and not being a new player. It also makes griefers' jobs much much easier, when they come by and harvest everything, dropping all the seed, since it will take at least an RL month for the victim to recover.

Overall, the idea is an incredible win - if the goal is to produce a hostile environment with armed camps full of suspicious players, on the one hand, and bands of frustrated newbies griefing out of sheer frustration, on the other.

[Yolan]

Kobnach wrote:
Overall, the idea is an incredible win - if the goal is to produce a hostile environment with armed camps full of suspicious players, on the one hand, and bands of frustrated newbies griefing out of sheer frustration, on the other.

That sounds a bit hyperbolic to me I'm afraid. I don't see how a week IRL to grow wheat = world of darkness and despair. Jerks will be jerks if they can get away with it, which is a matter beyond farming times.

It's just a matter of tweaking things. As mentioned in another post, I would like to see each individual square of wheat produce 3-4 grain, not 1-2. This would mean that fields could be expanded exponentially faster than currently possible. Likewise, grain sacks that hold about 14 units of grain. If we are concerned about the difficulty of setting up as a farmer from the outset, why not set up a third stage in the character creation process, beyond gender/name, for a 'kit'.

Add a person who asks you, do you prefer hunting, or farming? Say you choose farming, and you receive a bag of wheat, enough to start a nice little field, and a scythe. Voila.

The point is, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Laremere]

Yes, I posted elsewhere the other day about how we really should lengthen the growth time of Wheat to something like a week IRL. Although, I also would like to see volume increased, storage made easier, and harvesting/grinding flour made less clicky. Basically, I think farming should be a role that caters to people who _arent_ around very much, who like a slow pace. Log on now and then, do a few little tasks, log off. Thats certainly not a favouring of realism over fun, because not many IRL farmers could afford to behave like that!

Any kind of 'window' for harvesting would suck, except a very long term 'seasonal' window.

Ah, I'd really like this... hm... farming for the casual players, metalmaking and mining for the middle players, and hunting and soldiering for the powergamers. I like this a lot.

I strongly dislike that. I myself am a farmer who plays quite a bit. I think each path should be equally viable.

[kobnach]

Kobnach wrote:
Overall, the idea is an incredible win - if the goal is to produce a hostile environment with armed camps full of suspicious players, on the one hand, and bands of frustrated newbies griefing out of sheer frustration, on the other.

That sounds a bit hyperbolic to me I'm afraid.

Well of course, if I'm going to paint word pictures to make a point, they aren't going to be the kind of reasoned analyses that get people dismissing them with "wall of text," they are going to be sound bites.

It's just a matter of tweaking things. As mentioned in another post, I would like to see each individual square of wheat produce 3-4 grain, not 1-2. This would mean that fields could be expanded exponentially faster than currently possible. Likewise, grain sacks that hold about 14 units of grain. If we are concerned about the difficulty of setting up as a farmer from the outset, why not set up a third stage in the character creation process, beyond gender/name, for a 'kit'.

Add a person who asks you, do you prefer hunting, or farming? Say you choose farming, and you receive a bag of wheat, enough to start a nice little field, and a scythe. Voila.

The point is, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

[/quote]

Yes, but we have a history of the developers making big changes like this without the missing pieces to make them viable. Hence it's worthwhile suggesting what happens if the suggested change(s) are made without measures to balance them.