reek of theft collected time?

[flaw]

PvP is an absolute necessity for the game.

No, it isn't. It is part of this game, but it isn't necessary, at least not in current form.

I am telling you, that if there were no PVP and no fear of permadeath, there were no communities formed here. The game would be empty with occasional hermits and you will leave it sooner or later, just because there are no people. This is online game, this is not offline Sims 2. Maybe that is the point you did not get before.

You do know there are plenty of online games without PvP and permadeath that have extremely vibrant communities, right?

[Grelf]

And palisades aren't all that tough apparently for people to break. And really, it depends on what you focus on first. It's not necessarily a matter of doing it "wrong." And more to the point, whether it's worth stealing or not isn't the problem - some griefers will come in and wreck the place whether it's worth stealing or not, just to be dicks. Or wall people into their own palisades or... well, whatever. And not everyone sees that as "fun."

Which is my point - I'm not here to whine and complain, but to point out that there *is* another valid way to look at this other than "Oh, people going out of their way to be assholes adds to the enjoyment of the game for everyone!"

Random raiders will hardly try to break a palisade to get inside. I doubt this is going to happen to you, if you have one, unless you are inviting them in or did something to piss them off.

[SeanPan]

I know of no game with a truly intense and involved experience that does not involve PvP and harsh penalties on death. Permadeath? Perhaps not. But being set back months* at a time? Oh yes. And there's no thrill in competition that I have ever seen except against another human being.

*that is approximately how much dying in H&H sets you back, as well, I feel.

[erozaxx]

You do know there are plenty of online games without PvP and permadeath that have extremely vibrant communities, right?

Yes I do, but there are always other things you can compete in. Like PVM with trophys. Rare item drops. Basically theese are not sandbox games. They have usually some story behind and the story is offering way to compete. Those are thrilling. About sandbox games, which does not have any competition involved I know only two and both are full of abandoned spots and boredom. WURM online on the no PVP servers and some EGYPT game (dunno remember name) where I found three people online... What a thrilling game.

Another good looking sandbox game is Dawntide - but there is PVM and regulated market, what brings attention to the players ... and PVP is there as well.

I have experience of online gaming since UO was released and trust me, even Ultima sucked on shards, where PVP was forbidden.

[sabinati]

fools gettin told some wisdom ITT

[Oddity]

It always amazes me what kind of carebears are attracted to this PvP-anywhere, permadeath game.

[FatBob]

PvP is an absolute necessity for the game.

No, it isn't. It is part of this game, but it isn't necessary, at least not in current form.

Trust me when you dude will have the power to kill someone easily and hide yourself
You will probly grief

[flaw]

You do know there are plenty of online games without PvP and permadeath that have extremely vibrant communities, right?

Yes I do, but there are always other things you can compete in. Like PVM with trophys. Rare item drops. Basically theese are not sandbox games. They have usually some story behind and the story is offering way to compete. Those are thrilling. About sandbox games, which does not have any competition involved I know only two and both are full of abandoned spots and boredom. WURM online on the no PVP servers and some EGYPT game (dunno remember name) where I found three people online... What a thrilling game.

Another good looking sandbox game is Dawntide - but there is PVM and regulated market, what brings attention to the players ... and PVP is there as well.

I have experience of online gaming since UO was released and trust me, even Ultima sucked on shards, where PVP was forbidden.

I didn't say we shouldn't have PVP or permadeath, what I said was it wasn't necessary for the game to succeed, at least not in the current form. You seem to agree that other forms of competition can fill the same role. So I don't really see the disagreement.

[flaw]

PvP is an absolute necessity for the game.

No, it isn't. It is part of this game, but it isn't necessary, at least not in current form.

Trust me when you dude will have the power to kill someone easily and hide yourself
You will probly grief

Everyone always expects other people to act as they themselves would.

[flaw]

fools gettin told some wisdom ITT

Keep trollin' up those post numbers, Sab.