Let's Brainstorm! (melee combat!)

[burgingham]

The sword is usually just used to kill them faster once they are koed. Of course there are hybrid fighters as well and it is a viable option, but always keep in mind those cost alot more LP too. So of course it should have some advantages to a single fighting style.

[cloakblade]

Hybrids will only be really powerful if the melee maneuvers rely on UA+MC. Sense one thing you don't want to do as a hybrid is drop shield to much as it would cause an unsafe drop in your defense bar. Though the trade would be neat if you could force your opponent to have to worry about a valorous strike. Though I do like the idea of Melee Maneuvers attacking your opponent's resources rather than bolster your own.
I've also liked the idea of special moves for each weapon and making the strikes different, as it currently stands the only special one is Cleave which I personally think is way to hard to get off for what it does. Special Moves I've always like as a way to go as this would cause UA to have to dance through their maneuvers and Melee to have to choose from a larger selection of moves. You could also make melee require the use of Stamina in their stuff making it another resource (Unless you can drink water in combat which is kind of silly).

[dra6o0n]

Having cooldowns based also on what you have equipped can be another factor... But the agility deduction from armors already does that...

Weapons themselves don't deduct anything, given their weight and handling...

I mean, wouldn't it make sense for larger weapons to be heavier and does negate some agility?

This means that maybe minimizing agility loss on some armor, or tweaking it, and adding agility loss on weapons, can be a good overall balance for weapon users.

Means:
- Slightly less agility lost when equipping a full set of armor
- Slight agility lost when using weapons

Hybrids and Unarmed users still uses armors, so I think this will end up buffing their builds...

Because currently it's still basically Agility and Unarmed that's determining the base and primary stats of combat.

[cloakblade]

Having cooldowns based also on what you have equipped can be another factor... But the agility deduction from armors already does that...

Weapons themselves don't deduct anything, given their weight and handling...

I mean, wouldn't it make sense for larger weapons to be heavier and does negate some agility?

This means that maybe minimizing agility loss on some armor, or tweaking it, and adding agility loss on weapons, can be a good overall balance for weapon users.

Means:
- Slightly less agility lost when equipping a full set of armor
- Slight agility lost when using weapons

Hybrids and Unarmed users still uses armors, so I think this will end up buffing their builds...

Because currently it's still basically Agility and Unarmed that's determining the base and primary stats of combat.

Interesting but all this does is nerf Melee (hybrid or full) mildly and basically enforces what is happening now where you only use a sword to kill someone. Now it would be make sure you don't have it equipped until you need it. Though it is already implemented into the weapon attacks to take longer than a punch. For Example I'm pretty sure cleave has a huge cooldown.

[dra6o0n]

Maybe make "heavy armors" deduct your Unarmed by a percentage of points? So now you lose Agility AND some unarmed from equipping heavier and stronger armors.

I don't think players should be able to swing their fists much when your bulked and weigh down by heavy metals... It makes you unbalanced maybe.

Light armors would be the leather armor sets, including cutthroat hard leather armors.

Heavy armors are essentially metal plate armors, but I don't know if chainmail should count as light armor.

[TeckXKnight]

Maybe make "heavy armors" deduct your Unarmed by a percentage of points? So now you lose Agility AND some unarmed from equipping heavier and stronger armors.

I don't think players should be able to swing their fists much when your bulked and weigh down by heavy metals... It makes you unbalanced maybe.

Light armors would be the leather armor sets, including cutthroat hard leather armors.

Heavy armors are essentially metal plate armors, but I don't know if chainmail should count as light armor.

Even a major penalty does not meaningfully detract from the fact that a UA fighter will win against a MC fighter.

Lets say the penalty was unreasonably harsh and ate 25% of the UA from both fighters. One has base 200 UA, 40 MC, while the other has 40 UA, 200 MC. The UA fighter is still operating at Delta 2, making them brutally faster and more efficient in combat. While the MC fighter is still building initiative to launch their attack, the UA fighter will have already broken the MC fighters defense and cut through his shp. While the penalty did cut the UA fighter down to 150 UA, the sheer speed the UA fighter had in building initiative, regaining attack and defense, and worse yet the combat meditation made it so the MC focused fighter was far out classed.

You could theoretically gimp UA even harder for wearing heavy armor but that seems grossly unfair and a step in the wrong direction.

[pyrale]

Lets say the penalty was unreasonably harsh and ate 25% of the UA from both fighters. One has base 200 UA, 40 MC, while the other has 40 UA, 200 MC. The UA fighter is still operating at Delta 2

Wouldn't just replacing UA by max(UA, melee) fix this though ? Or would there still be imbalances between melee and UA ?

[TeckXKnight]

Wouldn't just replacing UA by max(UA, melee) fix this though ? Or would there still be imbalances between melee and UA ?

I'm not sure what you're saying. If you're suggesting a hardcap on UA set by armor, then I don't stand behind you at all.

[cloakblade]

Lets say the penalty was unreasonably harsh and ate 25% of the UA from both fighters. One has base 200 UA, 40 MC, while the other has 40 UA, 200 MC. The UA fighter is still operating at Delta 2

Wouldn't just replacing UA by max(UA, melee) fix this though ? Or would there still be imbalances between melee and UA ?

Are you saying to make delta based on melee or UA because I don't know if it would make Melee OP or not but I still don't like it, simply because I don't like the idea of a 1 UA fight being able to fight on his own.

And how does heavy armor not effect Melee Combatants.

[pyrale]

Wouldn't just replacing UA by max(UA, melee) fix this though ? Or would there still be imbalances between melee and UA ?

I'm not sure what you're saying. If you're suggesting a hardcap on UA set by armor, then I don't stand behind you at all.

correct me if I'm wrong, but delta is sqrt(your UA/their UA) right ?

What I was saying was that changing this formula to sqrt (max(your UA, your melee)/max(their UA, their melee)).
This would not give melee fighters the advantage to use manoeuvers, but atleast they wouldn't systematically be disadvantaged while fighting UA warriors.

Are you saying to make delta based on melee or UA because I don't know if it would make Melee OP or not but I still don't like it, simply because I don't like the idea of a 1 UA fight being able to fight on his own.

Well, I just find it silly that an armoured knight with a shield and a sword needs unarmed skill to fight :p.