Game Development: Salem & Haven

[Onionfighter]

If it's written in C or C++, good for you!

Write your own client if you want it in C.

[Sevenless]

Ultimately it comes down to what you know. If you can program something in java, now, it's better than programming something marginally better in C or C++ 1 to two years down the road.

That being said, holy god java needs to be anally optimized to get it not to lag I've never had serious discussions about whether 248 items would be enough in game before learning java.

Also on a random note: RedDwarf is a pain in the ass to learn, I heavily suggest aiming for single player games if you want to program a server in java.

[Nummy]

client is java, server is c. iirc there is a bit of lisp on the server as well.

i'm sure loftar can make a cogent argument about why java doesn't really have performance issues. i'll leave that to him if he desires to do it.

Since Java 1.5 version, java is only 2% slower than C. It was tested by many people and only drawback for java is memory management and consumption, which I doubt they will ever fix. We live in age where some additional gigs of RAM are not so expensive so companies don't really bother anymore with so much memory consumption.

Another drawback for using java is also ability to pretty easily decompile it. With some tools you can get source code out.

On other hands java is pretty safe and runs practically on everything. I can run java on my phone even it doesn't have specific JRE installed. (android OS).

[konrad]

Anyone checked salem website today?

[konrad]

Imho you shouldn't compare C and Java. If you compare performance more accurate would be Java vs C++ (can be object oriented code), but that is also a matter of discussion. C/C++ are compiled languages and their code is "closer to machine" (more complicated for humans), so applications in that languages runs faster. If we compare assembler and C, assembler should be faster, but creating huge applications in that language would be a pain:)
Choosing your language you should try to find balance between performance, developing time and portability.

This is how I see it:

C is fast and not object oriented, that is source of it's performance and advantage of every compiled language, but you have some disadvantages like:
- code recompilation for every platform you want to run your product,
- you have to buy licenses for compilators in some platforms,
- your code have to mange memory allocation (possible multiple memory leaks and in case of server applications huge memory usage and in the end crashes),
- creating memory managers takes about 40% your application developing time,
- compilation for any platform isn't possible if used any platform-dependent APIs,
- even longer developing time (managers getting angry about this:)),

above are Java advantages:)
- your code depends on JVM version and it can be easily executed on any platform with that JVM version,
- JVM is free, don't waste money for licenses give them to developers;),
- garbage collector allocates and deallocates your objects in memory (no leaks, less crashes),
- faster developing time,
- your code depends only from JVM version - platform-independent,

[Sevenless]

Imho you shouldn't compare C and Java. If you compare performance more accurate would be Java vs C++ (can be object oriented code), but that is also a matter of discussion. C/C++ are compiled languages and their code is "closer to machine" (more complicated for humans), so applications in that languages runs faster. If we compare assembler and C, assembler should be faster, but creating huge applications in that language would be a pain:)
Choosing your language you should try to find balance between performance, developing time and portability.

This is how I see it:

C is fast and not object oriented, that is source of it's performance and advantage of every compiled language, but you have some disadvantages like:
- code recompilation for every platform you want to run your product,
- you have to buy licenses for compilators in some platforms,
- your code have to mange memory allocation (possible multiple memory leaks and in case of server applications huge memory usage and in the end crashes),
- creating memory managers takes about 40% your application developing time,
- compilation for any platform isn't possible if used any platform-dependent APIs,
- even longer developing time (managers getting angry about this:)),

above are Java advantages:)
- your code depends on JVM version and it can be easily executed on any platform with that JVM version,
- JVM is free, don't waste money for licenses give them to developers;),
- garbage collector allocates and deallocates your objects in memory (no leaks, less crashes),
- faster developing time,
- your code depends only from JVM version - platform-independent,

I'd argue the garbage collector in java is far from perfect. Many programs are prone to memory leaks because of it.

Really for a small studio with a small budget you can't top java's cross platform workability. Having to make one version of the game compared to two or three is an incredible benefit.

And for all its flaws, I love java. It's like a pug: Ugly, slightly genetically malformed. But lovable with a unique personality (that sometimes makes you want to kill yourself).

[Kaios]

so where is the april 1st "Salem is opening" thread

[bmjclark]

I was half expecting an april fools "world 7" thread.

[hazzor]

I was half expecting an april fools "world 7" thread.

i was really expecting something, jorbtar are usually quite the trolls

[TeckXKnight]

I was half expecting an april fools "world 7" thread.

i was really expecting something, jorbtar are usually quite the trolls

They skipped last year, so we'll see if they had time for anything this year.