The Ghost of Christmas Future

[ysbryd]

I have had great fun playing both these games, so I would not in any way class either as failures. I think the pressure put on the Devs for weekly updates in Salem led them to take the game in a direction that maybe they didnt intend, sort of a cant see the wood for the trees scenario, and taking a step back and looking at the big picture might make a huge difference.
But still, all these people bleating continuously about the state of these games, when did you publish a game? what sort of following does your game have?
Haven and Salem are both niche games that will probably never have the mega success of say, Minecraft, but they have a very loyal following. I wish the devs well and look forward to the future.

[Cajoes]

I question the objectivity, sincerity and critique of a self-declared troll. By which I am humbly putting forward the notion that such behaviour should not be acknowledged. In summary: Stop feeding the troll.

I think I'll try out Salem once the server is reset, chaotic though a mess it will be for everyone to get resettled.

[Anon9k]

You are one of the many forum users that only uses the forums to rage at people, because your life sucks and all you do is play this game. Please at least say something legit

The way you ignore all arguments, answering me with your "lel nerd", makes me think that I was totally right about your inability to learn. Thank you for proving my point, come back when you got any reasonal arguments instead if that kiddy whining, mister Been-wanted-on-the-forums, lol.

[_Gunnar]

I think that Anon9k is right in that the "stats" in haven do reflect what is in fact intended to be the true skill of the game. However I do think there are problems with this, probably more exemplified by Salem than haven.

I think one important ingredient of a realistic social contract is that the people can withdraw their consent to be governed and have some sort of chance of resistance. If the ascendant class consists of literal supermen, this is no longer the case, which is perhaps why Salem never really progressed beyond a sort of brutal feudal system, despite the fact that it intends to be set in the sort of time period in which these systems were being / had been destroyed.

I think this problem is much less severe in haven than in salem, partly because the combat system is significantly better and partly because defenses are easier to construct. It could also be that the playerbase is less obnoxious. There are other problems in haven, of course, which mean that (violent) conflict is in some ways massively favoured over cooperation - alts, etc, which have all been discussed again and again.

Maybe one way to improve things is to make stats matter less and equipment matter more. This will make any nascent bourgeoisie more important relative to the military class, and perhaps allow this virtual society to progress a little more. Character progression should be more qualitative, as jorb has stated as one of his aims, and all hearthlings should be a little more equal in squishiness and strength, at least, under their armour...

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I think that Anon9k is right in that the "stats" in haven do reflect what is in fact intended to be the true skill of the game. However I do think there are problems with this, probably more exemplified by Salem than haven.

I think one important ingredient of a realistic social contract is that the people can withdraw their consent to be governed and have some sort of chance of resistance. If the ascendant class consists of literal supermen, this is no longer the case, which is perhaps why Salem never really progressed beyond a sort of brutal feudal system, despite the fact that it intends to be set in the sort of time period in which these systems were being / had been destroyed.

I think this problem is much less severe in haven than in salem, partly because the combat system is significantly better and partly because defenses are easier to construct. It could also be that the playerbase is less obnoxious. There are other problems in haven, of course, which mean that (violent) conflict is in some ways massively favoured over cooperation - alts, etc, which have all been discussed again and again.

Maybe one way to improve things is to make stats matter less and equipment matter more. This will make any nascent bourgeoisie more important relative to the military class, and perhaps allow this virtual society to progress a little more. Character progression should be more qualitative, as jorb has stated as one of his aims, and all hearthlings should be a little more equal in squishiness and strength, at least, under their armour...

Cool idea.

[Saxony4]

perhaps remove combat stats all together but keep stats like farming and cooking for example, and make combat more dependent on equipment used

[Lord_of_War]

Take it to c and I.

[Ninijutsu]

Take it to c and I.

Take it up your asshole.

[Unostop]

Take it to c and I.

Take it up your asshole.

Oh Snap!

[Bob_the_Cat]

perhaps remove combat stats all together but keep stats like farming and cooking for example, and make combat more dependent on equipment used

The slight problem with this is that then you could have someone just trade right away with a powerful friend to get some really high q armor and weapons, and them be wicked good already. Once you have high quality metals and stuff it isnt as hard to get more, so this could create mass army's of combat alts.