Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[Duderock]

making botting useless is actually the best but we all learned and know it doesnt happen.

I haven't fully figured things out yet, but if there ever is a solution to botting, I believe it will involve tying character progression to social interaction and making objects have an emphasis on qualitative elements rather than quantitative. In other words, make the amount or quality of the object irrelevant and focus more on its effects. That way, bots would only be effective if they are programmed with an adaptive AI, which is rare.

[Xcom]

@Duderock the issue with such a game would be the incredibly large amount of content that would be needed to keep players interested. A small company of 2 wouldn't be able to supply constant sprites, animations and ideas to keep up with the needs to create new items all the time. Remember that this is a crafting mmo and you couldn't exactly expect anyone to like the idea of creating the 500th B12 just for the hell of it.

[Scubas]

It wouldn't take that much content. Any system that disables botting is a good system. What's the fucking point of running a game that no players will even play?

[Kaios]

A small company of 2 wouldn't be able to supply constant sprites, animations and ideas to keep up with the needs to create new items all the time. Remember that this is a crafting mmo and you couldn't exactly expect anyone to like the idea of creating the 500th B12 just for the hell of it.

How is that any less of an issue now? Simply because you have this boring quality grind to suck up the majority of your time? There's still a lack of content regardless and they'll have to do something about that eventually. Sooner rather than later would be nice.

[Duderock]

@Duderock the issue with such a game would be the incredibly large amount of content that would be needed to keep players interested. A small company of 2 wouldn't be able to supply constant sprites, animations and ideas to keep up with the needs to create new items all the time. Remember that this is a crafting mmo and you couldn't exactly expect anyone to like the idea of creating the 500th B12 just for the hell of it.

I don't get where you got the implication that this would require tons of content or the idea that I want players to craft 500 B12s. In fact I was vouching for the opposite. Basically, just imagine if a B12 axe usefulness wasn't linked to its power, but rather its effects, which would remain consistent regardless of quality. Then you use its effects in combination with another items effects to win over your opponent. In such a scenario a bot would be practically useless because quality wouldn't matter.

Also even LESS content than currently would be necessary, because each object has effects that can combine to create an entirely new effect. Meaning every single object added practically squares the possibilities. This is unlike the current system were new things have to be added to satisfy those at top level. You only need to look at the top level players wearing the same things for proof of this.

[Dzedajus]

How about making metal weapons and armor base stats fixed on q40 instead of q10? Basically the damage or other effects would gradually decrease from q39 to q1 and from q41 would increase, but not so significantly that getting higher quality is a must, more like getting some advantage over user with lower quality gear.
That way I think there wouldn't be so much grinding just to get those few points of armor or weapon damage.
Also this will require some changes to combat system.

[Danno]

Regardless of Xcom's past hypocrisy and the fact that he's helping ruin the current world by botting, I agree with his points. I take back calling you a moron, Xcom, you were just being a jackass before.

The magnitude of a bot's advantage wouldn't really change even if tasks were completed instantly. I mean, yes, their numbers will be higher, but the same goes for the humans. Some things would be unaffected - the game would simply be made more playable for humans.
For example, let's say a human player only harvests their carrots once every 24 hours while a bot harvests the carrots 3 times every 24 hour period. Now let's take away the hourglasses, making harvesting instantaneous. The player still only harvests their carrots once every 24 hours, just now that task only takes 5 minutes instead of 30 minutes of work. The bot also still harvests their carrots just 3 times - the work doesn't matter to them either way because they are machines.

Keep in mind we have the curio system. He's not talking about removing the hourglass on the bucket grind LP system.

This isn't the solution to botting, and I don't think Xcom was trying to say it is. People can and will still bot even if the hourglass is removed (or made shorter with higher stats). This would make the game more playable and rewarding for human players, though. When I played, there were many times I didn't bother harvesting my crops because there was too much to harvest, it would take too long. If I could harvest without the hourglass, I might actually be willing to harvest more often, which would actually help me catch up to the bots.

Of course, grinding is still a shitty system and making this change won't magically give Haven worthwhile end-game content. It's a piece of the puzzle to make the game fun for average humans, though.

I haven't fully figured things out yet, but if there ever is a solution to botting, I believe it will involve tying character progression to social interaction and making objects have an emphasis on qualitative elements rather than quantitative. In other words, make the amount or quality of the object irrelevant and focus more on its effects. That way, bots would only be effective if they are programmed with an adaptive AI, which is rare.

I also agree on this, though it is vague. Character progression should be meaningful, not just a contest of who has more free time to waste grinding. If character progression required actual human input and effort, bots would become obsolete and fade away. Of course, that's easier said than done since a bot can easily be programmed to perform any pattern or work with any constants. The character progression needs to be incredibly innovative.

[jordancoles]

Your signature just makes you look like a brat who didn't like what he got for Christmas

[Jojjkano]

How does it take 4 months to get 700 ua?

[Danno]

Your signature just makes you look like a brat who didn't like what he got for Christmas

Your avatar makes you look like a jackass, but you don't hear me complaining. The context of your comment only makes sense if you've been reading my posts. If you have been reading my posts, you should be aware that I'm not just kicking and screaming insults, I'm making logical points on why the game is boring and non-multiplayer the way it is. Therefore, your comment is stupid. idoit

Anyway, this topic is about Hafen, not my unliked signature.