Haven 2.0: "Hafen"

[overtyped]

I think bots cannot be removed simply because no game system is complicated enough to be able to distinguish bots from players (without annoyances like captcha every 5 mins). IRL you can obviously see a metal robot, but in a game it all looks the same, how could you ban them?
For example, if a player without a bot wanted to make a sausage he would kill an animal, port it to his base, butcher it, walk to the meatgrinder and craft it. It's a very simple process and obviously a client-sided robot can do it instead of the player, the action will look the same though.

About the capthcha would it be unreasonable if you had to complete some sort of minigame that automated script would have hard time completing every time you forage stuff?

Possible backfire: somebody makes bot that completes minigame faster than human and botters now have even more advantage agaisnt non-botters.

Which is what I was talking about. Haven is basically a lot of minigames people create bots for, and you can't destinguish bots from players because, well, it's all simple minigames.

Bob dole thinks the best way to fight bots is by literally fighting them, with unarmed punches, or sword stings.
If the community was bigger, foraging bots would be less of a problem, because everyone would be aggroing them.
Players could aggro then ask something like, " if you are not a bot, say bob dole" if they do not say bob dole, they are bots.. or russians, either way it's a job well done.

[Tonkyhonk]

Bob dole thinks the best way to fight bots is by literally fighting them, with unarmed punches, or sword stings.
If the community was bigger, foraging bots would be less of a problem, because everyone would be aggroing them.
Players could aggro then ask something like, " if you are not a bot, say bob dole" if they do not say bob dole, they are bots.. or russians, either way it's a job well done.

we all appreciate Bob dole trying to fight bots, but Bob dole has never seen a whole mountain, lake or swamp being brickwalled for their bot farming.

[Danno]

Sounds like you've been having some pretty logical and stimulating conversations

You cherrypicked two single word insults out of the thousands of words I have written. Clearly those two words prove that I have been doing nothing but throwing a hissyfit and spouting nothing but groundless insults. Please stop derailing the thread with your stupidity (or mediocre trolling).

The solution to botting is simple, but it'll probably never happen here. To stop botting, all you have to do is make botting not worthwhile. In a game that focuses on tedious, repetitive tasks and rewards those who are able/willing to waste the most time on this, Haven will obviously be a botting paradise for years to come. If only there were some way to create a multiplayer game that has more emphasis on human interaction... Oh well, let's disregard SS13's existence and call it impossible.

It'd also be nice if the game could somehow police itself... Hmm, how can we eliminate the bots in a full PvP game? Gee, this is a tough one. I know, Loftar should make it so you can build a triple iron wall so that you can safely isolate yourselves even more!


Duhh, why do the bots keep happening? I just don't get it.

[jordancoles]

Bob dole thinks the best way to fight bots is by literally fighting them, with unarmed punches, or sword stings.
If the community was bigger, foraging bots would be less of a problem, because everyone would be aggroing them.
Players could aggro then ask something like, " if you are not a bot, say bob dole" if they do not say bob dole, they are bots.. or russians, either way it's a job well done.

we all appreciate Bob dole trying to fight bots, but Bob dole has never seen a whole mountain, lake or swamp being brickwalled for their bot farming.

Those are so few and far between lol, for how uncommon they are it's not even something worth bringing up

[NOOBY93]

Bob dole thinks the best way to fight bots is by literally fighting them, with unarmed punches, or sword stings.
If the community was bigger, foraging bots would be less of a problem, because everyone would be aggroing them.
Players could aggro then ask something like, " if you are not a bot, say bob dole" if they do not say bob dole, they are bots.. or russians, either way it's a job well done.

we all appreciate Bob dole trying to fight bots, but Bob dole has never seen a whole mountain, lake or swamp being brickwalled for their bot farming.

Those are so few and far between lol, for how uncommon they are it's not even something worth bringing up

Well it is, because if the only way to fight bots will be to -fight- them, people would just use brickwall-making bots to protect their bots, then use brickwall-checking bots to protect their brickwall. Bots must go!

[Repercussionist]

The solution to botting is simple

To stop botting, all you have to do is make botting not worthwhile.

Completely contradicting yourself. Everyone thinks they have this one magic spell of an idea that will fix this game, and besides the complete abstractness of these "Oh just do this (leave off any practical implementation here)" that's already been called out so many times by the devs and others, most of the ideas aren't even close to anything that could work. Essentially, botting will always be worthwhile. If you don't have anything that could possibly be automated, you probably don't have a game.

If only there were some way to create a multiplayer game that has more emphasis on human interaction...

They have those: card games, board games, role-playing chatrooms. Not the majority of computerized games. Why? For one, not everyone wants to play with others. There are a lot of hermits around that want to be hermits, not these "hermit colonies" I've seen suggested for the sake of implementing ridiculous civilization buffs or debuffs or whatever. Online games are great that they have given us a social aspect to games through chatting or working together, but it should not be a requirement, especially for a game like this. For two, the mechanics would clash between what the game is trying to achieve and sociability. If everything is based off social interaction, which, as has been said, would be difficult to quantify, then it's not a survival/crafting mmo, it's a social network, and we have plenty of those already.

I agree wholeheartedly that getting rid of bots and increasing benefits from interacting with other players would be good progress, but it is not as simple as everyone thinks it will be, especially when everyone uses bots and avoids social interactions BECAUSE of the current game mechanics, like a less than perfect pvp system and permadeath. These things are going to make people want to use bots and shy away from unnecessary social interaction because of the high risk.

[Kaios]

Everyone thinks they have this one magic spell of an idea that will fix this game, and besides the complete abstractness of these "Oh just do this (leave off any practical implementation here)" that's already been called out so many times by the devs and others, most of the ideas aren't even close to anything that could work.

You may not realize it but it's likely everyone here already knows this entire discussion is probably pointless, but so what? There's still a chance the devs will see something they like in this mess if they just stop popping their heads in to shut down every single suggestion presented. Also people have gone in to much more detail regarding their ideas than what you are implying.

The fact is, this game has a fantastic early game experience but you start to find as you play more that things become repetitive and before you know it you're repeating the exact same process day-in and day-out with the occasional exception that something interesting might happen like you get your face rocked by a gank squad.

[Repercussionist]

You may not realize it but it's likely everyone here already knows this entire discussion is probably pointless, but so what? There's still a chance the devs will see something they like in this mess if they just stop popping their heads in to shut down every single suggestion presented. Also people have gone in to much more detail regarding their ideas than what you are implying.

The fact is, this game has a fantastic early game experience but you start to find as you play more that things become repetitive and before you know it you're repeating the exact same process day-in and day-out with the occasional exception that something interesting might happen like you get your face rocked by a gank squad.

Actually, I do realize that it is probably moot to even begin to try to discuss this, reasonably or not, hence my reluctance to say anything in the past, but also know that I am speaking with complete sincerity. Just because people have gone into more detail doesn't mean that it's a good idea. My point was not to highlight the depth of suggestions given, but more so to comment on people's viewpoints and attitudes when they suggest something and it's not widely accepted and acclaimed and implemented instantly. Instead of stubbornly sticking by our own ideas stemmed from how we individually would envision the game with no other motive than pride, we need to listen.

Every game is fun until the novelty wears off. Everyone is so worried about rushing to start new worlds or have this idea implemented when they get bored that they are willing to adamantly defend things that could truly wreck the potential this game has. I, personally, would much prefer quality over having it now, and I would encourage others to exercise more patience and reason. From my time in this community, I know that that request is like asking a rock to fly on its own, but there is no easy, quick fix to make this game better.

[Xcom]

Its clear that direct discovery and adventure taps of early. But we have enough MMOs that focus on that kind of adventure and role play. I always found Haven to be a slower progressive game but thats exactly what makes haven unique and appealing. Most things last and have an impact, unlike other games where an hour gameplay is just one of many. In Haven everything is interconnected to the past events. You cant simply play Haven, you need to develop in Haven before your given the chance to get to the good stuff. Thats what makes this game so good and unlink other MMOs. The issue with calling it a grind is the lack of recognition to have a lot of elements that holds up this exact type of gameplay.

If you think its to grindy you clearly don't have the energy to invest. There are people with jobs and family that can do it and I'm convinced anyone can. The ones that complain about it being to hard are the ones that basically went at it solo or found themselfs in a situation where they lost interest. Don't try and change the game you cant play. Simply find a different and more suitable game that fits your needs.

This game is hard and I hope the development of Haven 2 will follow in the same footsteps. I also think Salem fail so hard at recognizing this exact element in Haven and failed. Convincing Jorb and Loftar to remove the thing that makes Haven tick will simply wreck Haven 2 just the same exact way Salem failed.

[Tonkyhonk]

There's still a chance the devs will see something they like in this mess if they just stop popping their heads in to shut down every single suggestion presented. Also people have gone in to much more detail regarding their ideas than what you are implying.

well, sorry, kaios, but there are nothing new (and decent) presented here as far as ive read here in this thread...
unfortunately, its always all the same conversation over and over in every fucking thread. better dig and read around if you doubt it.