What did you hate in Salem you dont want in H&H ?

[Tonkyhonk]

most of all, the ugly avatar.

tbh, the early game where you are notified you are wasting so much by not going into the gluttony mode or not having the right inspirationals to buy the skills i need and this absolute feeling of being punished by playing casually, and the inventory and storage was pita.

basically, the reason i fell in love with haven at first was how i could hoard as many items as i wanted, and so much freedom in what i could do in the early games. the more i played, the more i learned about how effectively i could do things or i came to know how wasteful i was in the beginning, but it hardly made me feel that i was being punished for not knowing enough about the game; i just enjoyed learning new stuff slowly.

what made haven great, imo, was all the simple systems that could go so complicated and gave you a variety of results with all combined. (on the other hand, salem has so many complicated systems that lead you to one simple result. but thats probably just for the early games, and i didnt play far enough to go advanced due to real life issues back then.)

[painhertz]

most of all, the ugly avatar.

tbh, the early game where you are notified you are wasting so much by not going into the gluttony mode or not having the right inspirationals to buy the skills i need and this absolute feeling of being punished by playing casually, and the inventory and storage was pita.

basically, the reason i fell in love with haven at first was how i could hoard as many items as i wanted, and so much freedom in what i could do in the early games. the more i played, the more i learned about how effectively i could do things or i came to know how wasteful i was in the beginning, but it hardly made me feel that i was being punished for not knowing enough about the game; i just enjoyed learning new stuff slowly.

what made haven great, imo, was all the simple systems that could go so complicated and gave you a variety of results with all combined. (on the other hand, salem has so many complicated systems that lead you to one simple result. but thats probably just for the early games, and i didnt play far enough to go advanced due to real life issues back then.)

Much like Bob Dole, ::vomits:: but my Japanese counterpart nailed it......

[Potjeh]

And yeah, for me the worst thing probably is Boston, Haven got so much better when Brodgar was removed.

[DDDsDD999]

There was no simplicity or straight-forward mechanics in salem. You had to look everything up to make sure you're doing it right and not just wasting time (see: gluttony, those things you sew into clothes, inspirationals). If you're casul you'll get nowhere, whereas in haven you don't have to know everything to make progress, you'll just be a bit inefficient.

[GenghisKhan44]

I would disagree with that, based on my own experience. You can't really progress in a game these days, unless you read the wiki.

Most games are that way. At least the ones I play. In Don't Starve, I could never survive a winter until I read a very helpful guide. And presently I am having population ageing problems in Banished, but I never would have gotten off the ground without the in-game help. Age of Empires II and III had tutorials, and help notes when you selected something; those were helpful.

Even in this game, Ender's client has been, in the past, a big help to me thanks to the on-client wiki. And I still consult ROB frequently while playing.




On the other hand... most games don't encourage you to read the wiki, or the manual, or the in-game help. If there is one thing I would have appreciated, it would have been at least a BIG NOTICE that there is a wiki I can consult for help.

[TeckXKnight]

There was no simplicity or straight-forward mechanics in salem. You had to look everything up to make sure you're doing it right and not just wasting time (see: gluttony, those things you sew into clothes, inspirationals). If you're casul you'll get nowhere, whereas in haven you don't have to know everything to make progress, you'll just be a bit inefficient.

I agree. Early Haven is intuitive, if not bewildering. It's difficult to grasp everything all at once but the basics click in your head. You're hungry so you go out and look for food, grabbing every little thing along the way. You're tired so you try to drink water. I feel like 'discovery' isn't nearly as intuitive though and trips a lot of people up. Getting your first kuska, setting up a lean-to, and foraging are all great stepping stones that you walk into on your own, leading to subsequent survival and growth. If anything throws off new players I feel it's 'string' as the concept isn't as straight forward. Spindly Taproot isn't something many people know about already. =)

[painhertz]

I would disagree with that, based on my own experience. You can't really progress in a game these days, unless you read the wiki.

Most games are that way. At least the ones I play. In Don't Starve, I could never survive a winter until I read a very helpful guide. And presently I am having population ageing problems in Banished, but I never would have gotten off the ground without the in-game help. Age of Empires II and III had tutorials, and help notes when you selected something; those were helpful.

Even in this game, Ender's client has been, in the past, a big help to me thanks to the on-client wiki. And I still consult ROB frequently while playing.




On the other hand... most games don't encourage you to read the wiki, or the manual, or the in-game help. If there is one thing I would have appreciated, it would have been at least a BIG NOTICE that there is a wiki I can consult for help.

You had to read tutorials for Don't Starve? This isn't the genre for you......

[jordancoles]

Painhertz the Esport athlete

[GenghisKhan44]

You had to read tutorials for Don't Starve? This isn't the genre for you......

The How do I? section shows I'm hardly alone.

[toshirohayate]

On the other hand... most games don't encourage you to read the wiki, or the manual, or the in-game help. If there is one thing I would have appreciated, it would have been at least a BIG NOTICE that there is a wiki I can consult for help.

That's because "most games" want you to learn how to do it yourself. The thrill of a survival or exploration game is the discovery itself. The wiki is just there to aid you when you find yourself stuck. It's pretty much as DDD said:

whereas in haven you don't have to know everything to make progress, you'll just be a bit inefficient.

The wiki was most useful for me when it came down to combat or crafting formulas. Things you can't learn about in the actual game. (At least, not without tons of effort.) Then it became useful again when curiosities came out.


As for the actual topic:

The camera. I like how I can move in Haven while the terrain and objects around me remain at constant screen coordinates, so clicking stuff isn't a chore (especially with all the thin foragables in Salem).

This is pretty much how I feel. I really detested the camera. I feel a survival game should have a fixed camera that can be dynamic. Moving the camera is fine, rotation was just odd.