The Dark Ages of PvP are upon us

[Ostara]

FFA pvp has and always will be about numbers, and FFA pvp with item/character loss is always going to be even more so.

In darkfall its was a pretty amazing part of the game that we would set up ambushes. We would send 3 baiters into a city to fight, enemy would send 7 to win easily by numbers, but our 3 guys would pull out and run to where then we have 7 more guys hiding behind trees. Then we win 10 vs 7 and get free loot, or 7 vs 7 and get a fair fight. But obviously smart players do not fall for obvious baiting.

How to put an interesting scouting/ambushing stuff in an top down game with a awfullly short view distance, and player radars, seems impossible. I guess you need to make it so that stats in some way improve an characters ability to flee from fights.

High cons*agility should give a decent enough amount of passive stamina regen, or a bigger amount of stamina, so that you can outrun a large group of fresh alts with swords. This would also be a nice nerf to doing all stamina draining activities on alts like every currently does (ie the piles of starved alt bodies to build walls).

TDLR: high level char should not be able to kill group of lower levels, but should be able to run away - should have better stamina.

In darkfall you could easily win outnumbered by just being better than your opponents though, which is how it should be in my opinion. If there's no individual player skill, or if the skill ceiling is really low, the game will be boring.

[Original]

Power in numbers. It's the reason armies are made up of tons of people instead of 5 herculean dudes.

The numbers might need balancing a little bit, but I see no issue with one stronger dude being gangbanged by several weaker dudes.

Think about the viability of such an idea from a gameplay perspective. You spend two months or more, playing all day every day, building a strong character, and three retards with day-old fresh spawned hearthlings spam punch and chop on you until you die. Does that sound like engaging and balanced gameplay?

Solution: get friends and unite. This is a game about pre-feudal europe, thats obviously the solution to your problems. Community wins fights. Numbers win. There's more to this than grinding a super character, and I think its pretty ok that someone can be good at this game simply by playing the social aspect of it.

They are going to need multiple hearthlings at the same time to actually kill you, which means manning several accounts at the same time or them having friends. If you have friends, its not an issue.

FFA pvp has and always will be about numbers, and FFA pvp with item/character loss is always going to be even more so.

In darkfall its was a pretty amazing part of the game that we would set up ambushes. We would send 3 baiters into a city to fight, enemy would send 7 to win easily by numbers, but our 3 guys would pull out and run to where then we have 7 more guys hiding behind trees. Then we win 10 vs 7 and get free loot, or 7 vs 7 and get a fair fight. But obviously smart players do not fall for obvious baiting.

How to put an interesting scouting/ambushing stuff in an top down game with a awfullly short view distance, and player radars, seems impossible. I guess you need to make it so that stats in some way improve an characters ability to flee from fights.

High cons*agility should give a decent enough amount of passive stamina regen, or a bigger amount of stamina, so that you can outrun a large group of fresh alts with swords. This would also be a nice nerf to doing all stamina draining activities on alts like every currently does (ie the piles of starved alt bodies to build walls).

TDLR: high level char should not be able to kill group of lower levels, but should be able to avoid engagement (but not run away mid fight) - should have better stamina.

PS: just pls dont make it like salem where guy with twice stats runs twice as far, that was fucken stoopid.

Make it where HP affects stamina then. We are going for hardcore right? Wounds cause stamina loss in real life. If you have a gaping wound you aren't going to be able to a full sprint. This will also allow for higher constitution players to naturally be able to have more stamina, allowing them to outflee grunt alts. Make it where water heals the same percentage of stamina, but their stamina means more. Also, why not make agility*constitution give a slight speed bonus as well? This would allow it for higher level characters to escape, but once combat is initiated and it starts turning south for them, they are trapped.

[banok]

In darkfall you could easily win outnumbered by just being better than your opponents though, which is how it should be in my opinion. If there's no individual player skill, or if the skill ceiling is really low, the game will be boring.

I agree, but I dont think haven will take that route, the new combat system is only a small step in this direction. its hard to make a player skill based game without manual movement/aim etc.

The "skill" in haven is more about the other parts of the game, like organising a town, production of consumables/items etc. In darkfall all you needed was players with good aim to dominate the server, such groups would fail miserably at haven.

Hah so you were ostara in darkfall? if so I hope you make some haven pvp vids because couple of your darkfall ones were amazing.

[Ninijutsu]

Power in numbers. It's the reason armies are made up of tons of people instead of 5 herculean dudes.

The numbers might need balancing a little bit, but I see no issue with one stronger dude being gangbanged by several weaker dudes.

Think about the viability of such an idea from a gameplay perspective. You spend two months or more, playing all day every day, building a strong character, and three retards with day-old fresh spawned hearthlings spam punch and chop on you until you die. Does that sound like engaging and balanced gameplay?

Solution: get friends and unite. This is a game about pre-feudal europe, thats obviously the solution to your problems. Community wins fights. Numbers win. There's more to this than grinding a super character, and I think its pretty ok that someone can be good at this game simply by playing the social aspect of it.

They are going to need multiple hearthlings at the same time to actually kill you, which means manning several accounts at the same time or them having friends. If you have friends, its not an issue.

In principle, I agree with you, but fresh spawned characters shouldn't be a threat to anybody. If you and your buds have worked on your characters for a month, and three of you take on a guy who's been developing his char for 3 months, you should be able to take him out with proper tactics. The proportions are currently retarded.

[bmjclark]

They are going to need multiple hearthlings at the same time to actually kill you, which means manning several accounts at the same time or them having friends. If you have friends, its not an issue.

For the LP my main has i could get 20 chars rage and will to power and beat down my main with 3 of them.

[Ostara]

In darkfall you could easily win outnumbered by just being better than your opponents though, which is how it should be in my opinion. If there's no individual player skill, or if the skill ceiling is really low, the game will be boring.

I agree, but I dont think haven will take that route, the new combat system is only a small step in this direction. its hard to make a player skill based game without manual movement/aim etc.

The "skill" in haven is more about the other parts of the game, like organising a town, production of consumables/items etc. In darkfall all you needed was players with good aim to dominate the server, such groups would fail miserably at haven.

Hah so you were ostara in darkfall? if so I hope you make some haven pvp vids because couple of your darkfall ones were amazing.

Movement was a big part of the old haven though, but that just got completely removed in hafen. In haven1 you could definitely win outnumbered fights by playing better. Numbers still made a big diffrence, so it felt somewhat balanced in that regard, the skill:numbers ratio.

I dont think haven will take that route either. I think its because they either dont care or they dont have the knowledge to create a balanced and engaging fighting system.

[Ninijutsu]

Movement was a big part of the old haven though, but that just got completely removed in hafen. In haven1 you could definitely win outnumbered fights by playing better. Numbers still made a big diffrence, so it felt somewhat balanced in that regard, the skill:numbers ratio.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtNMO6mRRwQ

[Original]

They are going to need multiple hearthlings at the same time to actually kill you, which means manning several accounts at the same time or them having friends. If you have friends, its not an issue.

For the LP my main has i could get 20 chars rage and will to power and beat down my main with 3 of them.

Can you play on all of them effectively?

[Ninijutsu]

They are going to need multiple hearthlings at the same time to actually kill you, which means manning several accounts at the same time or them having friends. If you have friends, its not an issue.

For the LP my main has i could get 20 chars rage and will to power and beat down my main with 3 of them.

Can you play on all of them effectively?

If you think the three characters being separate people makes it a legitimate situation then you're just a fuckin idiot. Come on.

[burgingham]

I think there is some legitimacy to that statement...