Quality increases: A discussion on the differences/issues

[bmjclark]

I mean, i agree they should have different effects, but i dont think one of them should be so useless as to be completely avoided like vit currently is on armor.

[_Gunnar]

Im not sure "avoided" is fair, you get quite a bit for free from leather and stuff.

I think its fine to have different things having different importance on different industries.

Weapons: substance only (afaik, apart from bow aiming speed which seems to be average?)
Armour: ess (primary) & sub (a little less important), vit only from the leather portion, you don't really seem to need to aim for it, especially without diminishing returns.
Food: vit & sub seem the most important, I guess essence will be important very late game...

So all the stats do have uses, maybe each stat has different levels of importance overall, but this is more a problem to do with the system being incomplete than a fundamental problem with the rather nice idea of different qualities.

[CaptainMidget]

Food: vit & sub seem the most important, I guess essence will be important very late game...

I'd like to know how low hunger goes on food when Sub is high. I mean, right now, some of my products are at .30% hunger.. Kinda seems a bit OP but imo. OFC its raw farm products, but I do want to know if theres a cap that it stops going down at.

[Jaroslav]

Yeah, picks are way too harsh.

Agreed. There's l1 spots that are hard for my miner to mine. L2 spots i can't even scratch and spots right next to it that are super soft. Hardness nodes are ridiculously harsh, and seem way to frequent. The different types of rocks have ridiculous hardness swings in them too. I was mining through silver ore fairly easily, mined into quartz and the rock was suddenly very much to hard to mine. With the amount of base str i have right now i could of been palibashing in past worlds. Seems a little ridiculous.

One of my other issues with quality right now is how useless vitality is on armor.

I am currently mining a L4 node without any issues. Hardness nodes can be a pain, sure, but they seem to work the same as Q nodes (with a center and then a "circle" radiating out from that) so it is pretty easy to work around if you see the pattern.

[Kaios]

I am currently mining a L4 node without any issues. Hardness nodes can be a pain, sure, but they seem to work the same as Q nodes (with a center and then a "circle" radiating out from that) so it is pretty easy to work around if you see the pattern.

Yeah but before you dug down to L4 you were on L3, before that L2, etc. and you didn't know how hard it would be when you built those mineholes, you just (presumably) found some ore that looked good and built one down to it. The rest of it relies completely on your luck, there's no skill factor involved. You got lucky and I hate that it works that way.

[Jaroslav]

I am currently mining a L4 node without any issues. Hardness nodes can be a pain, sure, but they seem to work the same as Q nodes (with a center and then a "circle" radiating out from that) so it is pretty easy to work around if you see the pattern.

Yeah but before you dug down to L4 you were on L3, before that L2, etc. and you didn't know how hard it would be when you built those mineholes, you just (presumably) found some ore that looked good and built one down to it. The rest of it relies completely on your luck, there's no skill factor involved. You got lucky and I hate that it works that way.

Make a minehole to somewhere that is way to hard? > make a minehole somewhere else and try again.

Also, the different types of rocks have different degrees of hardness. Make sure you know what you are diggin down to.

[Kaios]

Make a minehole to somewhere that is way to hard? > make a minehole somewhere else and try again.

Also, the different types of rocks have different degrees of hardness. Make sure you know what you are diggin down to.

Yes but I've had this conversation with Delamore already and I'm not sure why you guys can't see the problem. It's a combination of so many factors that result in a shitty mining system.

Quality raising is slow and thus pick quality is also slow to raise unless like I previously stated, you get lucky. Strength requirements in combination with low pick quality creates an environment where feeding an alt pure str food and saving LP only for the mining skills becomes the way to get it done, apologies if I had not realized that when Jorb and Loftar said they are going to work on eliminating the need for alt characters, they meant everything except for mining.

You're saying "make a minehole somewhere else and try again" like it's no big deal. Materials such as hard leather go incredibly fast in a large village. I'd really like to know how many people you guys have got in total, it honestly doesn't sound like you're gearing up a large group. I know different rocks have different degrees of hardness but again, relies mostly on luck.

[Jaroslav]

Make a minehole to somewhere that is way to hard? > make a minehole somewhere else and try again.

Also, the different types of rocks have different degrees of hardness. Make sure you know what you are diggin down to.

Yes but I've had this conversation with Delamore already and I'm not sure why you guys can't see the problem. It's a combination of so many factors that result in a shitty mining system.

Quality raising is slow and thus pick quality is also slow to raise unless like I previously stated, you get lucky. Strength requirements in combination with low pick quality creates an environment where feeding an alt pure str food and saving LP only for the mining skills becomes the way to get it done, apologies if I had not realized that when Jorb and Loftar said they are going to work on eliminating the need for alt characters, they meant everything except for mining.

You're saying "make a minehole somewhere else and try again" like it's no big deal. Materials such as hard leather go incredibly fast in a large village. I'd really like to know how many people you guys have got in total, it honestly doesn't sound like you're gearing up a large group. I know different rocks have different degrees of hardness but again, relies mostly on luck.

I only have one character, and i am the main miner for our village. Sure, i focus most of my feasting on STR, but my other stats are decent enough. May i ask what you are using all this hard leather on, if not for mineholes? I think we have placed around 15 mineholes at this point, so i would not say it is all luck. Q being slow to raise isn't a very valid argument either. Is there a reason you feel like you should be able to mine everything after just a month or two? The fact that you can't raise your Q megafast anymore has slowed down the pace of the game by quite a bit, and to be fair i rather like it.

[Kaios]

May i ask what you are using all this hard leather on, if not for mineholes?

I don't know but perhaps that would be something I should figure out cuz this is ridiculous at the moment

Q being slow to raise isn't a very valid argument either.

It is when they slow down the pace but don't modify any other aspects of quality raising, we didn't even have sliders in the form of skills for a bit.

Is there a reason you feel like you should be able to mine everything after just a month or two? The fact that you can't raise your Q megafast anymore has slowed down the pace of the game by quite a bit, and to be fair i rather like it.

I don't feel that way but I do feel that the current state is not reasonable, after a month or two at least almost everything on the first level should be possible to mine with some relative easiness. I also like the slower pace myself but I do think it needs some fine tuning.

[_Gunnar]

Food: vit & sub seem the most important, I guess essence will be important very late game...

I'd like to know how low hunger goes on food when Sub is high. I mean, right now, some of my products are at .30% hunger.. Kinda seems a bit OP but imo. OFC its raw farm products, but I do want to know if theres a cap that it stops going down at.

I doubt there will be a cap, but I have no evidence other than gut feeling on how the devs would implement it.
It means that for recipes which don't involve tools the feps per hunger increases linearly with time (if your farmer never caps your crops, that is..)