New Map Changes

[JustasJ]

Bunnies give Agi, and Chickens give Dex, the point is that we want to fill up, but don't want to unbalance FEPs.

Simple solution: hire a crappy cook.

[Grey-fox-13]

Am i the only one liking the old system of not having anything at the beginning?

i would like to quote somebodys signature here

Throughout the centuries there were men who took first steps, down new roads, armed with nothing but their own vision.
- Ayn Rand

That was basicly the interestning about the game being kicked into the wild with basicly bare hands and no idea what to do.
The struggle to survive begins and you have to fight for getting better travel and trade to get seeds, try things out to find out stuff i am taken by the hand and told what magical button to push at what time by enough other games i think that this unique helpless thing is something pretty interestning about HH and shouldnt be just thrown away.

[Cookie]

I don't support taking the fep away from bread. I think the bread is in the newbie kit in order to give new players some fep food that they can use to raise their hit points, and also to learn that apples are non-fep food but other types of food will raise your stats. We already have a no-fep foods -apples and mulberries- and they come in an unlimited supply, assuming you are lucky enough to find a suitable tree.

Sources of non-con food are easier for me to come by than con food. More than one of my characters had to get boat building and go kill aurochs before they could get any con from spawning in a neighbourhood that was wheatless. It may not be valuable to you, but with different cards, con becomes the rare stat, not the common one. If your baker is making surplus bread he can always trade it or even just drop it to get the lp from making it but not fill up all your settlement's containers. Other ways you can get no fep food include breeding chickens for poor quality, and retaining low q equipment for fishing. When you first start out flax farming you end up with a ton of poor q fibre and seed which can be retained for both these purposes. It also seems important to me that there should be a non-hunting option for all the sorts of fep. If for one reason or another players are slow with starting to hunt or choose not to hunt altogether, my preference is for them still to have some source of fep to raise all the attributes. Otherwise we all get forced into the path of hunting which definitely limits the game.

[Cookie]

Am i the only one liking the old system of not having anything at the beginning?

That was basicly the interestning about the game being kicked into the wild with basicly bare hands and no idea what to do.
The struggle to survive begins and you have to fight for getting better travel and trade to get seeds, try things out to find out stuff i am taken by the hand and told what magical button to push at what time by enough other games i think that this unique helpless thing is something pretty interestning about HH and shouldnt be just thrown away.

I do enjoy that particular variation too. It's fun to start with a character whose first priority is not food or water but shoes. If you like that variation, simply leave the character creation room without picking up supplies. My experiments along this line showed me that the difference between no supplies when you know what to do vs having all the starting supplies is quite small. The difference becomes that lumberjacking and carpentry become first priority over hunting, foraging and exploration, and clothmaking becomes a third priority after securing a food supply instead of being a cheap 200lp skill that you pick up when you have 200lp to spare.

On the other hand there have been plenty of messages posted on forum from noobs trying to get string or find out how to get away from bears, that ended with "never mind, character died" so I don't feel we need to reduce the beginners' kit. I would like to see a clear tutorial for players who really need it -my preference would be a link from the Home page. Right now the info is often not getting to the people who need it.

But I also don't think the game would be improved if we all started out with a full set of seeds plus two cast iron for a sausage grinder. Part of the fun of the game comes from the variations where you discover that your character who intended to become a farmer can't find wheat no-how but stumbles on an unclaimed abandoned iron mine in the first two hours, or suddenly finding yourself being the local hunter for a settlement clinging to the shoreline to avoid bears. A too full kit would limit these options. It may be frustrating not having pumpkins -but spending a week on a glorious odyssy of travel hunting them down has its own charm, and I can assure anyone who hasn't got pumpkins yet, the &^&%$# things continue to be frustrating after you have got them because they are so darn prolific: 8 seeds AND 8 items of food per tile of pumpkin that you plant can give anyone a taste for the famed Dwarven bread from Terry Pratchett.

[minck1]

Low Quality fish still give FEP. And there is a link to the How To on the front page of the website. There is even a link to the how to at the top of this page. It could probably use some updating, especially a point about string. If wheat seeds aren't given out, the wheat and other seed spawns need to regenerate. On the current map I had to travel about an hour away (was a lot longer the first time) before I found a wheat field. I found a pair of grape seeds in an abandoned basket. Just looking in grassland after grassland, even in the new zones I have NEVER found a wild wheat or grape plant. I am located in a fairly remote part of the world, only seen 1 other person weeks after I started.

[Peter]

I don't support taking the fep away from bread. I think the bread is in the newbie kit in order to give new players some fep food that they can use to raise their hit points, and also to learn that apples are non-fep food but other types of food will raise your stats. We already have a no-fep foods -apples and mulberries- and they come in an unlimited supply, assuming you are lucky enough to find a suitable tree.

Sources of non-con food are easier for me to come by than con food. More than one of my characters had to get boat building and go kill aurochs before they could get any con from spawning in a neighbourhood that was wheatless. It may not be valuable to you, but with different cards, con becomes the rare stat, not the common one. If your baker is making surplus bread he can always trade it or even just drop it to get the lp from making it but not fill up all your settlement's containers. Other ways you can get no fep food include breeding chickens for poor quality, and retaining low q equipment for fishing. When you first start out flax farming you end up with a ton of poor q fibre and seed which can be retained for both these purposes. It also seems important to me that there should be a non-hunting option for all the sorts of fep. If for one reason or another players are slow with starting to hunt or choose not to hunt altogether, my preference is for them still to have some source of fep to raise all the attributes. Otherwise we all get forced into the path of hunting which definitely limits the game.

Apples+wheat = Apple pie, a con food that is barely more difficult to make than bread. I won't even mention cheeses, because I admit that they are impossible to get without hunting. As it is, if you can make bread, you can make Apple Pies, which are virtually identical.

I feel that making purposely poor food is more of a workaround than a feature. Simply put, bread is a quintessentially "Basic" food, and one that every new player will think of making very quickly.

If the idea of giving newbies bread was to increase their hit points, why not just give them more HP to begin with?

[Morgant]

Apples+wheat = Apple pie, a con food that is barely more difficult to make than bread. I won't even mention cheeses, because I admit that they are impossible to get without hunting. As it is, if you can make bread, you can make Apple Pies, which are virtually identical.

I feel that making purposely poor food is more of a workaround than a feature. Simply put, bread is a quintessentially "Basic" food, and one that every new player will think of making very quickly.

If the idea of giving newbies bread was to increase their hit points, why not just give them more HP to begin with?

This.

[flaw]

Apples+wheat = Apple pie, a con food that is barely more difficult to make than bread. I won't even mention cheeses, because I admit that they are impossible to get without hunting. As it is, if you can make bread, you can make Apple Pies, which are virtually identical.

I feel that making purposely poor food is more of a workaround than a feature. Simply put, bread is a quintessentially "Basic" food, and one that every new player will think of making very quickly.

If the idea of giving newbies bread was to increase their hit points, why not just give them more HP to begin with?

This.

Doesn't apple pie require butter? If so, this is much harder to make than bread.

[minck1]

Yes it does.

[sabinati]

the simple solution would be to remove fep from bread and make the apple pie recipe not require butter. the blueberry pie recipe doesn't require butter.