dvsmasta wrote:
so Hafen is pay 2 win from the start, yes?
do you not understand what pay to win means? pay to play is completely different than pay to win
they are also giving you a free option for a good amount of time or in this case stat/quality cap
it boils down to the same thing. TIme gates with money to remove them = pay to win.
no pay to win is paying to make your character win instantly, IE being able to buy a gun or in this case a sword that is higher in damage/stats than any gun/sword acquirable without spending money...paying to get a full game is how......any game works...either through micro transactions, a sub, a purchase etc.....thats how devs keeps....developing....theres no such thing as a free lunch...just because jorb and loftar were kind enough to let you play old haven for free for many years does not mean its some right you deserve, if you want them to do this full time they need to be able to pay rent, buy food, sustain a server...etc etc....
do you have no respect for their time, energy and personal money they have put into this game? Do you really believe just paying to play a game that is constantly in development as pay to win?...your definition is far off base from the normal definition
Last edited by smileyguy4you on Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
Granger wrote:
Suggest a better mechanic to give death meaning and I am sure that the devs will at least think about it.
How much more meaning do you need than being able to loot the curios/equip/inventory?
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Last edited by Ramki on Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
smileyguy4you wrote:
do you not understand what pay to win means? pay to play is completely different than pay to win
they are also giving you a free option for a good amount of time or in this case stat/quality cap
it boils down to the same thing. TIme gates with money to remove them = pay to win.
no pay to win is paying to make your character win instantly, IE being able to buy a gun or in this case a sword that is higher in damage/stats than any gun/sword acquirable without spending money...paying to get a full game is how......any game works...either through micro transactions, a sub, a purchase etc.....thats how devs keeps....developing....theres no such thing as a free lunch...just because jorb and loftar were kind enough to let you play old haven for free for many years does not mean its some right you deserve, if you want them to do this full time they need to be able to pay rent, buy food, sustain a server...etc etc....
There is a broader meaning to pay 2 win than just buying in game items to give you a boost. Even worse is this crazy idea of giving an LP boost for paying. If thats not paying to win i dont know what is. Its just like buying exp bonus packs or luck packs or whatever in a different game.
dvsmasta wrote:
it boils down to the same thing. TIme gates with money to remove them = pay to win.
no pay to win is paying to make your character win instantly, IE being able to buy a gun or in this case a sword that is higher in damage/stats than any gun/sword acquirable without spending money...paying to get a full game is how......any game works...either through micro transactions, a sub, a purchase etc.....thats how devs keeps....developing....theres no such thing as a free lunch...just because jorb and loftar were kind enough to let you play old haven for free for many years does not mean its some right you deserve, if you want them to do this full time they need to be able to pay rent, buy food, sustain a server...etc etc....
There is a broader meaning to pay 2 win than just buying in game items to give you a boost. Even worse is this crazy idea of giving an LP boost for paying. If thats not paying to win i dont know what is. Its just like buying exp bonus packs or luck packs or whatever in a different game.
ok, suggest a pay model that is not pay to win in your mind, im all ears
Granger wrote:
Suggest a better mechanic to give death meaning and I am sure that the devs will at least think about it.
How much more meaning do you need than being able to loot the curios/equip/inventory?
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Now we start to get somewhere.
Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.
How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?
Ramki wrote:
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Now we start to get somewhere.
Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.
How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?
I think its fair where its at however I still think that it should be less punishing then 40-70% ( people would more willing to keep playing after death)
As for the delay I think its fair at 2-3 hours. Better then losing most of your skills.
Last edited by Ramki on Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Ramki wrote:
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Now we start to get somewhere.
Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.
How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?
I think its fair where its at however I still think that it should be less punishing then 40-70% ( people would more willing to keep playing after death)
They added non-pvp areas via the visitor buff and you saw large social projects begin to form, but it was already to late as sub count was so low. You are suggesting moving even further away from permadeath with a reduced stat loss to keep players in the game. You want to reduce the need of combat lats/bot spam, remove permadeath and you wont feel the need to have dozens of characters to keep up with the jones so to speak.
Ramki wrote:
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Now we start to get somewhere.
Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.
How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?
I think its fair where its at however I still think that it should be less punishing then 40-70% ( people would more willing to keep playing after death)
As for the delay I think its fair at 6 hours.
I dont see the problem with the death atm, it is a permadeath game after all. Inheritance and burial already softens that blow. As someone that plays one account, having a time punishment for dying would end my nightly game play and waste subscription time also. If i died at the start of my gaming session for the night or the day on a weekend, it would suck, but i could start again immediately with the available free time i set aside to play. If i was punished on top of that (even if the death stat loss was less severe) with being unable to play for even 2 hours let alone 6, I would be more likely to stop playing all together. This could make alt accounts and botting even more common...but *shrug* just my 2cents
Granger wrote:
Adding a 5-6 hour kill time before you can log back in with said person. With a 20-30% loss in skills. That's just a simple example that could work with a cap limit system.
Now we start to get somewhere.
Given that some play with only one character (instead of an adult army) the delay might feel a bit harsh, but ok.
How do you come up with the 20-30% skill loss (I take it you mean skills and attributes), and do I get you right that you see the current system (40-70% skill loss) as to punishing?
I dont see the problem with the death atm, it is a permadeath game after all. Inheritance and burial already softens that blow. As someone that plays one account, having a time punishment for dying would end my nightly game play and waste subscription time also. If i died at the start of my gaming session for the night or the day on a weekend, it would suck, but i could start again immediately with the available free time i set aside to play. If i was punished on top of that (even if the death stat loss was less severe) with being unable to play for even 2 hours let alone 6, I would be more likely to stop playing all together. This could make alt accounts and botting even more common...but *shrug* just my 2cents
Don't forget that there planing on changing the payment model. You could always make a new person on that account and start playing off the bat. Also people making alt accounts will never end.
Last edited by Ramki on Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:44 am, edited 3 times in total.
