Steelmaking Discussion

[Kaios]

Steel is super fucking easy to do.
I have no clue why anyone is complaining. It's not like you're sitting there the hole 12 hrs constantly filling the crucible when it goes down a bit.

All you have to do is chop down a tree, and that should be enough to fuel the steel.
Then you just do it at a time where you can refill them without having to worry about it at all.

that's actually part of the issue expressed in this thread, it requires no effort for those who have time but time is more valuable than effort.

[Robben_DuMarsch]

I like this idea.

[stya]

Most people out there can produce steel, if you can't you should trade for it. No big issue honestly in my opinion. If you are an hermit and want to constantly produce steel or hq steel without having to worry about time... Something is wrong with your playstyle. Like silk, steel needs some special care and a 'bit" of dedication.

[azrid]

-1
I think premium materials/items that not everyone can manage can be a very inspiring goal.
The current steel system just favors one type of play style. Making the process more flexible would be very easy without changing the actual system itself as people already mentioned increased fuel capacity. But I am not in favor of that. I think it should be made so hard that Hermits can only dream about that sweet shiny steel bar. Hard to craft things that you really want should push you into trading rather than to change the game to fit your specific play style.

[MagicManICT]

I'm going to say first off that I did not completely read through this, only skimmed it, and haven't read the commentary, so I might have missed a finer point, and may be duplicating a comment.

I didn't play before w3, but if I recall right, early steel production was done in such a way that quality was greatly affected by how well you kept the crucible at a "middle level" for X hours. It was scrapped for the current system because people weren't bothering with it because it complicated things too much. At least that's what I recall of reading discussions on the matter. I'll note that I have played other games where quality of metal production was based on a mini-game similar to this, but the mini-game took minutes to do, not hours, and you produced in smallish quantities (or large quantities in a few cases... I'm referring to A Tale in the Desert). This could work if done right, but over hours isn't doing it right. (I'll also note that real-world steel production before modern smelting processes took weeks, sometimes months, depending on method used.)

As a hermit, my biggest issue is just remembering to log on multiple times a day to fuel the crucibles. Screw that. I'd rather just trade for the steel I want than have to log in every 8-10 hours to drop a few coal in each crucible.

[TeckXKnight]

This idea seems like the most mindnumbingly painful experience possible. Your job becomes to sit next to your steel crucibles for hours on end with cabinets full of the required materials. As for uniting farmers and miners, I don't really see how it does that either. The need to stockpile common materials isn't exactly a challenge, even in bulk. Ultimately we're left with a more tedious experience that yields more or less the same time gates but with drastically increased attention requirements.

The proposed idea would eat an entire game day for a player, disallowing them from performing any other actions that would take their attention away from their steel crucible. We've historically had very similar systems with things such as decay on claims, where it could be a full game day just gathering clay, burning bricks, and running around checking and repairing your walls and structures. It was about as mentally stimulating as a hurling yourself into a wall.

I do agree that more materials can be added to the formula though. Breaking up and distributing the time gate into material preparation would increase the sense of difficulty of the process and could allow for a more rewarding experience. If for example, using your initial material ideas, preparing the flux and oil was a mildly laborious process that involved checking on them periodically over the course of half an hour and fixing their composition/prep before letting them sit and prepare for, say, 2-4 hours, then assigning them a shelf life of something like 12 hours before they began to lose quality and spoiling altogether after 36 hours -- you could create a system of material production and acquisition that rewards attentiveness without putting insane time pressures on players. The added steps trade off by adding more work in exchange for removing the need to refuel the crucibles, instead just letting them burn away for 60 hours straight before producing steel.

I doubt my idea will hold up to scrutiny but I hope it gives an idea of what I'm trying to say.

[Kaios]

I do agree that more materials can be added to the formula though. Breaking up and distributing the time gate into material preparation would increase the sense of difficulty of the process and could allow for a more rewarding experience.

This was my idea from the other thread in C&I:

Double the timer or increase to 16-20 hours but give incentive to do something like fuel with a carbon source at a certain time/temperature/level of fuel otherwise the steel reduces in quality. Wouldn't matter for producing wall grade steel but would for quality steel.

So to elaborate, maybe increasing to 24 hours on a full fuel bar wouldn't be a bad idea. Require input of X material when the wrought is cooked at 25-50% and a second time from 75-100% otherwise missing those timeframes causes a reduction in quality say 10 points as an example.

[Amanda44]

I think it should be made so hard that Hermits can only dream about that sweet shiny steel bar. Hard to craft things that you really want should push you into trading rather than to change the game to fit your specific play style.

In all worlds prior to the new release that was possible and I traded regularly for items I don't have the time or flexibility to make myself but trading now is a dangerous business, lol.

For example; I added up the points I needed to trade at LG's, it came to over 400 pts, the market is a fair distance from where I am which means either travel on foot/horse for my goods or use the road systems where applicable, both of which could leave me open to attack and theft of my belongings, lets say for arguments sake I want to use game tokens, so that's four of them using my hard earned dollar that I am opening myself up for losing on the way ... you have to be some kind of stupid to take that risk, imo. So, I could trade in lower quantities, it's still a risk and then involves more trips, more risk.

Why should only those that have more time, or less caution, have the game fit their playstyle and not those with less time or more caution?
There are many different playstyles, the game should try it's best to cater to all ... imho.

[wolf1000wolf]

I guess my post/reply/idea got buried and most ppl just read the OP's idea...

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=48200&start=15

I spent awhile on this too.

[Ysh]

I guess my post/reply/idea got buried and most ppl just read the OP's idea...

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=48200&start=15

I spent awhile on this too.

I think there should not be a random elements. Otherwise, this is a spreadsheet system. I am liking this type of play, but I think it can be unpopular.