New world?

[Enjoyment]

''Stop learning from other things!!!''

Wasn't my point at all. But even if it is - you know, I already saw some "early-access-survival-open-world-crafting-mmo" that definitely (and I mean absoulutely) was unshamely copied their idea straight from H&H. So I think, it is allways better to be the one who teach rather than one who learns.

Copy paste is not good idea. Original idea can be good and useful. But reinventing good things for just the sake of this or shutting out the rest of the world ideas is silly. ''All thing used in moderation.''

Ysh, do u have the one person behind this account? Maybe this topic was created just to blind us? I just sometimes can't understand you at all. What is that statment was about?.. I say u - H&H is the game, that other devs is willing to copy. U say - copy is bad. And before that, u say - why not copy from other? What kind of man u r?

[Hasta]

If there are some parallel between this game and others, we should look to this other game to see what happens. Jorb and loftar are two man team, they can not afford to brute force design of this game. They can not afford to not learn from mistake and success from other games.

Well, since the comparison started about PvP/PvE servers in Wurm, it's obvious that those just won't fly in H&H.

[Ysh]

Wasn't my point at all. But even if it is - you know, I already saw some "early-access-survival-open-world-crafting-mmo" that definitely (and I mean absoulutely) was unshamely copied their idea straight from H&H. So I think, it is allways better to be the one who teach rather than one who learns.

Copy paste is not good idea. Original idea can be good and useful. But reinventing good things for just the sake of this or shutting out the rest of the world ideas is silly. ''All thing used in moderation.''

Ysh, do u have the one person behind this account? Maybe this topic was created just to blind us? I just sometimes can't understand you at all. What is that statment was about?.. I say u - H&H is the game, that other devs is willing to copy. U say - copy is bad. And before that, u say - why not copy from other? What kind of man u r?

Clone another game is not a good idea. Taking good idea from other game to use in your game if it makes sense for your game is good idea. This is clearer?

And yes, I am only man who does postings from this account.

[Enjoyment]

It's a crap system

Don't compare H&H with any other game

Hmm, I believe we lost something in translation.

Yeap, I think we were

[Jalpha]

What are you saying then Enjoyment? That there should be more to the PvE side of Hafen that doesn't involve PvP?

If that's the case I have to agree with you, the statistics thread showed there is a higher proportion of players who do not PvP or only PvP in a limited fashion iirc. But what original mechanic could arise to occupy those PvErs who leave in the late-game? That's a pretty massive question.

If you are saying things are fine as they are though and if people don't like it they should just go away, then I don't believe that to be a terribly constructive opinion.

[Enjoyment]

Clone another game is not a good idea. Taking good idea from other game to use in your game if it makes sense for your game is good idea. This is clearer?

Ok.

Jorb: I want my game to have a combat system based on card-board.
Ysh: Why do so? %Gamename% have perfect combat system - take their!
Jorb: Ok, but I want getting LP from studying curios in my game?
Ysh: Oh, c'mon, %Gamename% already developed the greatest system for gaing LP - take their!
Jorb: Ok, but I want hearthlings have to beat up the animals for taming!!!
Ysh: It sounds wierd! Maybe you should use the taming system from %Gamename%?
Jorb: Ok,...
sometime later...
Ysh: See, Jorb! Now you have a perfect game!!!
Jorb: Maybe. But this is NOT MY GAME!

[Ysh]

Clone another game is not a good idea. Taking good idea from other game to use in your game if it makes sense for your game is good idea. This is clearer?

Ok.

Jorb: I want my game to have a combat system based on card-board.
Ysh: Why do so? %Gamename% have perfect combat system - take their!
Jorb: Ok, but I want getting LP from studying curios in my game?
Ysh: Oh, c'mon, %Gamename% already developed the greatest system for gaing LP - take their!
Jorb: Ok, but I want hearthlings have to beat up the animals for taming!!!
Ysh: It sounds wierd! Maybe you should use the taming system from %Gamename%?
Jorb: Ok,...
sometime later...
Ysh: See, Jorb! Now you have a perfect game!!!
Jorb: Maybe. But this is NOT MY GAME!

Different for the sake of different is not compelling for me. If all of those system from other games actually were perfect for Haven, jorb would be fool to not take them. Basically my point is this:

Doing some thing only because somebody else did it and it worked is not good.
Refusing to do some thing only because somebody else did it is not good.

Neither absolute is acceptable. But it is fine to take inspiration from other things that do work.

[Enjoyment]

What are you saying then Enjoyment? That there should be more to the PvE side of Hafen that doesn't involve PvP?

If that's the case I have to agree with you, the statistics thread showed there is a higher proportion of players who do not PvP or only PvP in a limited fashion iirc. But what original mechanic could arise to occupy those PvErs who leave in the late-game? That's a pretty massive question.

If you are saying things are fine as they are though and if people don't like it they should just go away, then I don't believe that to be a terribly constructive opinion.

Im saying, that maybe, just maybe, H&H is one of those rare old-school games that don't use any Pv* in its concept at all. Like, you know, Good Old Games. They were created with small teams like Seatribe just for fun. Just to show the rest of the world, how this two guys imagine their own perfect game...
Only that I was talking about, nothing more, but never less.
If u never played games published before 2000 u may not understand. I won't blame u. But I do hope, J&L played that games. But I may be wrong.

[Enjoyment]

Different for the sake of different is not compelling for me. If all of those system from other games actually were perfect for Haven, jorb would be fool to not take them. Basically my point is this:

Doing some thing only because somebody else did it and it worked is not good.
Refusing to do some thing only because somebody else did it is not good.

Neither absolute is acceptable. But it is fine to take inspiration from other things that do work.

I will write you a story of one another indie game made by one man in Ring of Brodgar. It has some touching points with H&H, and Im sure you'll read it tommorow near 20:00 GMT+2(+3? that's your time zone?). Maybe after reading, you'll get my point.

[Ysh]

Different for the sake of different is not compelling for me. If all of those system from other games actually were perfect for Haven, jorb would be fool to not take them. Basically my point is this:

Doing some thing only because somebody else did it and it worked is not good.
Refusing to do some thing only because somebody else did it is not good.

Neither absolute is acceptable. But it is fine to take inspiration from other things that do work.

I will write you a story of one another indie game made by one man in Ring of Brodgar. It has some touching points with H&H, and Im sure you'll read it tommorow near 20:00 GMT+2(+3? that's your time zone?). Maybe after reading, you'll get my point.

Sure. I am in GMT-4 right now.