Battering Ram->Cliffs

[Winterbrass]

I understand you have a compulsion to be a major dick and that's fine but you shouldn't let it interfere with your ability to address the issue at hand.

I understand that you have a compulsion to complain about 'realism' and that's fine but you shouldn't let it interfere with your ability to perceive shitty suggestions.

[Chakravanti]

-snip-

Well aren't you just a cute little witty wannabe....except you have nothing useful or relevant to say either.

[Winterbrass]

-snip-

Well aren't you just a cute little witty wannabe....except you have nothing useful or relevant to say either.

I think the implication was that you made a fail suggestion, which is highly relevant.

[theTrav]

Chak, you have read about the value of realism in games yeah?
You DO understand that it's not a black and white, never pick realism decision right?

The largest problem with understanding the benefit of realism is that it's largely realized through emergent effects and overall immersion in a universe which is internally consistent enough to encourage the players to make reasoned decisions about how things they have not encountered before are going to work.

This comment is not in response to anything specific about this thread, but rather to the fact that I've never seen you admit any knowledge of the benefit to 'realism' or more importantly an internally consistent environment.

[Chakravanti]

FUck off all of you. There is nothing fail about being able to terraform cliffs. The fact that they are permanent makes less fucking sense than using a battering ram to bust em up. I could give a shit a less HOW it's excavated...if you have to ram it first and then take a pick to remove boulders. Or just pick at it to remove a hundred fucking boulders. The point is that cliffs should be able to be terraformed and there isn't nothing bad or unrealistic about THAT.

The reason I suggest using a battering ram is because the high level of investment into making them means that cliffs still have meaning as a form and function of the game.

[theTrav]

The point is that cliffs should be able to be terraformed and there isn't nothing bad or unrealistic about THAT.

I don't think anyone's strongly disagreeing with you on that one, a lot of people dislike the specific mechanics you've suggested, and you've defended that mechanic aggressively, which is probably why you believe people are focusing on that.

Do you have any thoughts on how cave entrances should be handled with this terraforming thing? I think it would work out reasonably enough if terraforming meant "move" instead of "remove", or maybe they could turn into stand along holes, or perhaps even be blocked off, maybe let people re-discover them later using some crazy new skill set and re-build entrances?

[Wolfang]

Yes the idea is very realistic.

[FrisianDude]

I don't much like it because of realism issues. Like many others, it seems. What I'd prefer would be to be able to kinda heighten the ground at the foot of a cliff with many logs, boards, boughs, and twigs and leaving that for a while so a semi-natural ramp starts existing.

Edit: would only work with speedbump sized miniature cliffettes, though. Not with a big ass one like Wolfang just drew.

[Jackard]

FUck off all of you. There is nothing fail about being able to terraform cliffs. The fact that they are permanent makes less fucking sense than using a battering ram to bust em up. I could give a shit a less HOW it's excavated...if you have to ram it first and then take a pick to remove boulders. Or just pick at it to remove a hundred fucking boulders. The point is that cliffs should be able to be terraformed and there isn't nothing bad or unrealistic about THAT.

Gameplay should be intuitive... the concept of battering rams destroying cliffs is as bizarre and unexpected as a person dying the very instant they enter deep water.

Similar to what I recently told someone else, its not that making cliffs less of a showstopper is bad - its more that your suggested method of doing it sucks. Better solutions have already been posted - climbing, carving stairs and using ladders.

[Chakravanti]

non of those ideas address building a wall through a cliff.