Bots and the nature of the game

[bmjclark]

If accounts only supported one char, if we had to pay for every account, and if alts were officially banned, I think that could work.

Sometimes i wonder if people actively try to make the game worse.

[dageir]

If accounts only supported one char, if we had to pay for every account, and if alts were officially banned, I think that could work.

Sometimes i wonder if people actively try to make the game worse.

Why would the game be worse? I have partially played with just one char.
Makes it more meaningful, but less able to compete.

[ekzarh]

Just fix bots. They can break each and every game. Even chess (and now even Go)

STEP 1 (this would decrease combat alts and high skilled bots a lot)
1) Administration rule that forbids bots.
2) Taking obvious cases (like circling foragers or bot farmers)
3) Ban

STEP 2 (this would decrease botting of hardcore factions a lot)
Select top characters from DB.
Track food they've consumed
Track activity of those food producers
Observe the activity of both in real time.
If it looks like bot - BAN BOTH

STEP 3 (make life of bot makers 100 times harder)
a) Pull requests to default Hafen client are accepted by dev team. From authorised contributors. Even 'atmosphere breaking' pull requests if they make gampley better
b) Network layer is separated from client and not publicly available
c) Network packets have offsets and markers externalized to separate config for the ase of changing without breaking the game.
d) each week Jorbtar randomizes offsets and markers, compiles the network layer, obfuscates it heavily and commits it as compiled lib to github. (this can be done once in a script. It can even be scheduled to run weekly - no manual work at all)
e) Client is recompiled and updated
f) automatic permaban is implemented in case of offset or marker mismatch.
g) Network traffic is encrypted (if it's not yet). With user hash (generated from password), generated token and token updated weekly manually.
h) /* some secret additional steps which devs have to invent themselves and keep secret*/

RESULT
a) people using default client with autoupdater never get banned
b) QoL features in native client
c) deobfuscation network protocol is complex and time consuming
d) My estimate - 2-3 full working days of a decent developer to enjoy botting for 4-5 days. They'll just burn out quickly.

P.S. I am, a heavy botter. I have used bots in every MMORPG which had them. I have wrote some bots. I have been banned for bots 2-3 times. And yet I'd prefer to play without bots. But only if not a single person would playe with bots

[Granger]

Steps 1+2 are doable.

a) Pull requests to default Hafen client are accepted by dev team. From authorised contributors. Even 'atmosphere breaking' pull requests if they make gampley better

That, or backporting QoL features from custom ones into the official client to make it bearable since currently it is way to clicky (in terms of how often you have to click to get things done, compared to non-bot custom clients).

Rest of your step 3 stuff dosn't work since the bots are not sitting inside the network layer.

[ekzarh]

Steps 1+2 are doable.

a) Pull requests to default Hafen client are accepted by dev team. From authorised contributors. Even 'atmosphere breaking' pull requests if they make gampley better

That, or backporting QoL features from custom ones into the official client to make it bearable since currently it is way to clicky (in terms of how often you have to click to get things done, compared to non-bot custom clients).

Rest of your step 3 stuff dosn't work since the bots are not sitting inside the network layer.

True. I have missed the obvious
There should be a client protection so that either only default client ( or default + authorised custom clients) is allowed to connect. Which is a complicated thingy.

[ven]

What I think is that we already have enough good MOBAs and RTS games to choose from. Cheaper, with greater tradition and playerbase, larger dev teams, and simply much better. To the point that haven can't reasonably compete with them for a place in the market. But the offer for survival MMORPGs is very limited; I don't think there's even 3 games like that for us to pick from.

How many other game to allow bot to pick from? I think maybe you lose argument to use this as point.

As fas as I know you can use bots in every one of them and only dota has a system that makes them too much of a pain to be worth the effort. But that's not my point.

The question is why would any user choose to play this game, a RTS, when there are much better RTSs around. The only reason, I assume, is emotional attachment to legacy, which explains why most players are veterans and why haven can't retain new users.
My other question is whether it'd be more reasonable to stop insisting on that model and instead exploit the desire and the market gap for survival mmorpgs.

[Ysh]

The question is why would any user choose to play this game, a RTS, when there are much better RTSs around.

I think probably because this game is not RTS.

[Kaios]

I think probably because this game is not RTS.

I think he meant as an RTS, managing your bots and their activities etc.

[Ysh]

I think probably because this game is not RTS.

I think he meant as an RTS, managing your bots and their activities etc.

Even doing this is very different gameplay experience to some thing as like Starcraft II.

[ven]

You control several units. Your units level up and have specializations. They are so meaningless to you that you give them crappy names, if not just numbers. You send some of them to die sometimes, because you have a full line of fighter alts, and that doesn't bother you one bit. Progress is considered more of a barrier than an actual part of the game, so you automate it with autocurio. You gather resources by the bulk with different chars. Then you expand to gather more resources. You build bases all over the map. Roleplay is laughed upon both in and out of the game. Do you remember coles’ old signature? He had like 15 clients open on the taskbar. And the devs just confirmed that they consider interplayer competition a priority. And in order to compete, you have to bot and own that many alts.

Look me in the eye and tell me this is more an mmorpg than an rts for you.