Game Development: Dust & Mud

[DDDsDD999]

5% speed bonus is excessive, there was no problem staying in melee range with a fleeing opponent as it used to be in legacy, so why exactly was it implemented?

It was implemented because there seemed to us to be a consensus that it was too hard to kill one-another under the last patch, quite simply. Was this not so?

I don't think you understand the importance of movement speed. This change should make ganks unescapable death orgies.

[Pan_w_okularach]

It was implemented because there seemed to us to be a consensus that it was too hard to kill one-another under the last patch, quite simply. Was this not so?

It was hard but for different reasons, maintaining melee contact wasn't a problem.

Do the maneuvers help at all in a 1vMany scenario?

1 vs many? I doubt it. Maybe 1v2 you can try to fight back with combat meditation if you see that your opponents are bad, but realistically your best chance is to run. And I think that the game should embrace it - chases were fun in Legacy, even though the melee range bug made me wanna die, there was some strategy in it, both sides had to be on top of their game in order to succeed, overall great gameplay.

Would you like to see a change to the speed, the armor penetration or both, and won't either or a combination of the two make it too hard to kill another player?

Both things are bad. It will make it harder to kill another player, but not impossible. There could be some movement effects though but it shouldn't be so one-sided. If there's a mechanic that helps the chasers there should also be something that would help the chased.

I love how I am constantly taking small amounts of damage when fighting animals, so I'm in no rush to change that aspect of it.

That's by definition masochism.

if your running in a straight line I would think it would be very hard for the 2nd person to hit u at all really due to getting blocked by his buddy

That's true, but you will still take some damage from every attack because there is no good way of keeping your openings at 0% and it will eventually kill you.

I am not so sure the speed boost needs to be removed because you can still get people caught on corners and things, you can still swim across rivers. since you cannot be 1 hit anymore you can also cliff jump away now. if you have more CON then your opponents u can attempt a longer swim then they are comfortable with... and the speed bonus doesn't help on horses and everyone fights on horses.

Cutting corners can help but only if your opponent is bad at it. Against an equal (with equally low ping and equally high FPS) opponent, that little gap you can make will be killed by the speed bonus. Not sure how swimming rivers and climbing cliff can help it slows down both sides equally. You can still be one shot. Horses are no longer a thing in combat because of how OP that raw hide magic is.

[Astarisk]

Would you like to see a change to the speed, the armor penetration or both

Both
Armor set effects:
Full steel set should give you armor that cant be penetrated but slows you down.
Having leather gear should keep your original speed but can be penetrated.

This would balance steel armors being pointless late game and would give use to the less used steel helmet.

I don't get why people think having armor effect movement speed is a good idea. Its only fun as an rpg mechanic and nothing more. My experience with games that attempt to pull this off is that the community tends to just stick it out with whatever makes them fastest, because movement speed is invaluable, everything else can be made up with stats.

In hafen, a higher tier player can pull off leather armor better than a low tier player, who might need to rely on plate to give them an edge in fighting some of the animals. All you would really do is sentence anyone who wears plate to death by gank squad and so on, it doesn't change anything but make plate undesirable completely. If the dev's wanted to make certain armor more appealing than others, it needs to be done through other mechanics, such as making the difference between UA and MC more defined, allowing more creative character development etc.

[azrid]

I don't get why people think having armor effect movement speed is a good idea.

Realism and makes sense. Right now people just wear one set of clothes basically since there is no other endgame options.
Variation basically.

In hafen, a higher tier player can pull off leather armor better. All you would really do is sentence anyone who wears plate to death by gank squad

Higher tier players will gank in current systems and new systems while most likely being better equipped than solo players.

it doesn't change anything but make plate undesirable completely.

Not true at all. Plate would be used for hunting mostly and mammoths and trolls. It will also make you unable to lose 1v1 as it would cut out the small hits that would leak through with leather. But also you cannot chase down the leather armor wearer so its a defensive option while leather being the offensive.

If the dev's wanted to make certain armor more appealing than others, it needs to be done through other mechanics, such as making the difference between UA and MC more defined, allowing more creative character development etc.

Having only UA or MC is hardly very creative character development. IMO armors and weapons should all have their distinct advantages.
One good example is fyrd sword having a buff.
One bad example are spears. They could have their own moves and advantages in battle.
Right now game has a lot of wasted potential in the form of some weapons and armor pieces as they get just looked over and everyone wears their dhelm,ctc and steel pants.

[Jesus_Smith_Nandez]

I think that plate should lower the amount of damage penetration significantly and the trade off would be the agil debuff. Anything meddling with movement speed is a bad idea.

[leanne69]

One bad example are spears. They could have their own moves and advantages in battle.

Spears are great.

[Astarisk]

Realism and makes sense. Right now people just wear one set of clothes basically since there is no other endgame options.
Variation basically.

This is a game, realism and makes sense does not equal good game design elements. Realism for the sake of realism is not good. They can find other ways to make people wear different clothes, they did a pretty great job with that when they introduced gilding. They just need to extend new fun and engaging systems in regards to armor now.

Having armor hinder movement speed is not the way to go in any way, as people will just merge to one dominant meta, which will be the one that makes them fastest. If we felt that we needed plate armor to kill a mammoth, we'd carry a set in our inventory. But mostly, we'd just eventually try to overcome any issue through stats.

But when it comes to pvp, the king is speed, if we can just swarm and surround a guy wearing plate, then that plate really wont help him out, the small cuts he is saving himself from are nothing compared to the large blows he will eventually be receiving by players than can dance circles around him.

[azrid]

Heres hoping they do actually give incentive to wear the less used armors and weapons

If we felt that we needed plate armor to kill a mammoth, we'd carry a set in our inventory. But mostly, we'd just eventually try to overcome any issue through stats.

Glad you brought these up.
#BringBackStatCap
Also could add effect of getting full openings when changing combat gear in action.
I know you hate me saying this but its realistic that if you take off your clothes to change them you have a huge opening in form of a naked, pink, soft body.

But when it comes to pvp, the king is speed, if we can just swarm and surround a guy wearing plate, then that plate really wont help him out, the small cuts he is saving himself from are nothing compared to the large blows he will eventually be receiving by players than can dance circles around him.

Give more options for the armored man to at least win small ganks such as 2v1. I don't think you should be winning vs an army.
Your answer to that however is a stalemate where no one wins if they keep moving. In fact everyone loses since you all waste time.

[Astarisk]

Heres hoping they do actually give incentive to wear the less used armors and weapons

If we felt that we needed plate armor to kill a mammoth, we'd carry a set in our inventory. But mostly, we'd just eventually try to overcome any issue through stats.

Glad you brought these up.
#BringBackStatCap
Also could add effect of getting full openings when changing combat gear in action.
I know you hate me saying this but its realistic that if you take off your clothes to change them you have a huge opening in form of a naked, pink, soft body.

First off, no stat caps are an ugly limitation added to the game that just tells players they shouldn't bother playing anymore. I ended up quitting because I hit the stat caps, and had even more LP just sitting around unspent, the game became boring. I ended up creating an alt at one point, capped his attributes, and probably got more LP than most players in the two weeks I played him before I finally just had enough. Sadly they removed the caps too late for me as my place had fully lost its life, animals included, and I didn't feel up to rebuilding it.

Stat caps kill a lot of the games industry. I just made enough cheese to reach my goal and never looked backed, I had no reason to sell the cheese, nor did I have reasons to buy cheese from anyone else. There just isn't a lot of dynamic end game things to do once you hit them, especially since they are so easy to hit.

As to fights with animals like mammoths, before this patch it didn't matter too much what your stats were like, you'd still get wrecked. I don't like the idea of animal fights just being a solid stat check on whether or not you take damage, they should be more fun, engaging, and dynamic. There should be ways to mitigate damage that just isn't purely based on what gear you rock, and what stats you have. Moves like the mammoth boulder throw should appear in more ways, and when you end up being defeated it should feel like it was your fault for playing poorly. The current game just has you zerg mobs, there really isn't much though or tactics in a take down.

But when it comes to pvp, the king is speed, if we can just swarm and surround a guy wearing plate, then that plate really wont help him out, the small cuts he is saving himself from are nothing compared to the large blows he will eventually be receiving by players than can dance circles around him.

Give more options for the armored man to at least win small ganks such as 2v1. I don't think you should be winning vs an army.
Your answer to that however is a stalemate where no one wins if they keep moving. In fact everyone loses since you all waste time.

Wearing plate shouldn't give you an automatic win in a 2v1, though it would hardly matter when your opponents can choose when and how to engage, giving themselves time to poke openings in the plated guy, while being able to back off and recover theirs. Eventually the movement speed loss is just going to cause him to succumb through a prolonged fight. Being able to choose when to engage a fight is one of the biggest combat advantages this game can offer. For example, its possible to just follow behind him keeping in locked in combat while more of our guys show up, giving us an even greater number advantage, or if its a group fight we know the people in armor typically wont be able to keep up, so we can just target down the leather guys, etc etc

When it comes to armor I'd rather see more decisions like plate gauntlets vs cut throat knuckles, where you can choose to have more armor, or choose to have UA moves powered up a meaningful bit, touching movement speed is a horrible way to try to make different armors appealing.

[jordancoles]

Not sure how swimming rivers and climbing cliff can help it slows down both sides equally.

Can you not que a punch going into the water to get the speed bonus?