Alternatives to pay to win

[loftar]

Monetize forum game. Custom name color. Badge or whatever. Paid emoticons. Subscription only boards.

Pay for unban.

[shadyg0d]

Question for you:

If you're playing casually, why would you care that other players are going to be "better" than you?

If you're loving this game and devoting many hours a day, don't you think this game is worth the $15 one time fee and $7/month sub?

I think I belong to the latter category.
Paying to be "better" in a competitive game doesn't feel right, nor does playing against players who paid to be better. -Especially- in a game like haven, where permadeath is a thing and the events/interactions that happen become "historical" in a sense. What happens actually MATTERS, significantly, to the dedicated player. When unfair advantages are mixed in it reduces the impact and meaning of everything that happens, and one can only question what was truly to blame for the outcome. How do we know who was better? Who did something miraculous and overcame great odds to achieve something? You can say "but it's just a game". To me it's not "just a game", and that's what makes haven special. Yes, it is a game, but if it were -just- a game I would go play something else. People who truly love this game play it for an experience that impacts them deeply.

But there's really no need for me to explain this. If the payment system doesn't bother you then this thread is not for you. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way though.

I will say that I'd be happy to pay $15 dollars and a $7/month sub if it were required to play the game(pay to play). Unfair advantages are not an incentive to me and they actually discourage me from wanting to support the game. Not only does this system hurt the game but it makes my achievements feel meaningless. Paying for it would would support the game but it would also cast a vote that the current payment system is fine with me. And not only do I not want to pay for unfair advantages, I don't want to play for free either, because my experience could be ruined unfairly by those who paid. Lose/lose for me...

This thread is not for debating what "pay to win" means or if haven is pay to win.

It's a bit hard to reason about a solution without being allowed to ask what the problem is.

The problem is that there isn't a level playing field and IMO it lessons the integrity of the game. Some people are OK with this but many people are not. I'm just trying to keep this on topic because these threads often turn into a debate about whether said game is pay to win and what the definition of "pay to win" is. The bottom line is that unfair advantages can be bought with RL money and that is the point of this thread, no matter what "pay to win" actually means.

And this debate I wanted to avoid is EXACTLY what this thread is now turning into.

[Ysh]

Monetize forum game. Custom name color. Badge or whatever. Paid emoticons. Subscription only boards.

Pay for unban.

Granger can be a profit generator overnight.

[loftar]

Granger can be a profit generator overnight. ;)

25% royalties to the mod who issued the ban. ^^

[sabinati]

Monetize forum game. Custom name color. Badge or whatever. Paid emoticons. Subscription only boards.

Pay for unban.

$10

[loftar]

And this debate I wanted to avoid is EXACTLY what this thread is now turning into.

You haven't even explained what part of the payment model you think makes it pay-to-win, though.

[sabinati]

the advantages given to paying players, assumably

[Divicid]

Well if you want to be competitive, then pay for the game.
Don't buy that Happy Meal at Mcdonalds, or take that extra beer when you at the bar. It's not expensive.

Seriously, how long has the devs been developing this game? I wish they could support themselves on Haven & Hearth, with a proper playerbase, and a profitable subscription plan. Then we might be able to see more devotion and time spent on making this a great game.
But apparently, some people don't think it's worth throwing them 7$ for a game they have developed for years. That is too much.
Just to be clear, if you are not paying for this game, then you have no right what so ever to complain. You are simply leeching of an incredible dedication for a game, driven by passion without any real meaning of being profitable.
Both Jorb and Loftar deserves that extra coin in their pocket for taking time to make this such a great game.

[2d0x]

If you're playing casually, why would you care that other players are going to be "better" than you?

Rightly; a damn good question.

[loftar]

the advantages given to paying players, assumably

Presumably, but I'm not sure if he's referring to verification/subscriptions, or only to subtokens, or perhaps to the mad advantage that can be had by wearing the Cat Hat.