Alternatives to pay to win

[2d0x]

In this game there will be a lot of people more successful than me; regardless of money. In this game there will be people that prevent me from playing; regardless of money. I knew it from the start. There is no reason for panic and tears.

[cyrus9586]

Taking the definition of Pay To Win:
Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.

So buy better gear? No
Make better items? No
Make items faster? Yes and No. You can make them FASTER but not BETTER.
Makes the game largely unbalances even for people who have skill in the game? No

Lets break down Character Development Rate. The only thing that can be considered even slightly P2W about HnH.

50% added FEPs and LP. Thats what it does according to the only post I found about it from Ozzy from a while ago.
So if a food item gives 100 FEP it will give 150 instead. That will be useless till you need 150 FEPs to gain a point. It will make lesser foods better. But a free person can use better Symbels, Hemp buds, salt, tea, satiations etc to make up for the difference. And once you get to a 800 that extra 50 will mean even less. A free person can still game the system to their advantage it will just take a bit longer.

Extra LP. Use 2 rings of Brogdar and a Pneck. All it really does is save time. Thats it. Hell do quests get XP and shorten your study time. Again all this does in the end is save time.

But. But. But THE COMBAT STATZAR! OMFG DONT YOU SEE HOW SOMEONE CAN BECOME A GOD AND JUST KILL EVERYONE?!?!

Combat related attributes are going to be capped to 999 for W10 launch. Even with buffs the limit is 1998. No matter how fast you get there you will eventually be on an equal level as anyone else.

BUT WITH EXTRA LP MEANS THEY CAN CRAFT BETTER THINGS FASTERZ! THEY WILL MAKE Q900 ARMORZ AND BE UNSTOPPABLE!

Having ∞skills will not stop someone from getting killed. Having ∞ LP will not let someone take q10 metal and make q∞ armor and weapons. Even with caps removed the best we saw was q300ish items (at least posted idk about used)

BUT ITS STILL PAY 2 WIN FUCK YOU!

No matter how much money you want to throw at the game all you can buy is either cosmetic items or spend 15 on verified and then 7$ per month. Thats it.

This is not Star Trek Online where you HAVE to spend money on the best ships and the more you spend the better the ships(which will eventually be replaced anyways)

This is not World of Tanks where the only decent tanks are bought.

This is not Battle Field Heroes where almost everything costs RL$

Those games are literally Pay to Win. You can throw endless amounts of money on them to get stronger.

All getting subbed and verified does is save time. As I said NUMEROUS times before. If you are willing to:
1. PUT IN TIME.
2. PUT IN EFFORT.
3. WORK YOUR ASS OFF.

Then you can do better then the paid people.

All paying for the game does is help keep the game alive and keep it being worked on. If I had the money I would pay for a lifetime account if they offered it. I would DONATE money and ask for nothing back. But I am a broke bitch. I have barely enough to pay 22$ on the 6th. But I will do it cause I want this game to live on.

BUT!

No. Just no. You're just whining now cause you want to whine. If you are whining that means you're not willing to strive to be better. You are not willing to learn to be better. All you're trying to do is knock down Jorb/Loftar I may have stirred up some shit recently but I do respect this game and want to see it grow and flourish. I want to see this world bring in 200+ people and KEEP them. If you're against that then GTFO.

[ricky]

I'm in favor of raffles.

add a $0.10/0.25/0.50 raffle ticket which adds you to a daily/weekly/monthly raffle.
unlimited entries

prizes include:
in game cosmetics
developers personally visiting your base
personal satisfaction
whatever the fuck the devs feel like raffling.

optionally, raffle prizes could include things that can be considered pay2win, such as:
no stamina consumption for 6 hours
a stick that's quality 400
the ability to walk on water for 6 hours
a crate of creamy cocks
whatever the fuck the devs feel like raffling

[shadyg0d]

Not replying to anyone specific, but nobody can deny that there are advantages to paid players. What we completely disagree on is how big the advantage is and how much it negatively impacts the game. If we're talking about any specific "advantage"(character development, subtokens, etc), the majority here think it's completely negligible while a few people think it's potentially a big deal

What I don't get is why people who have no qualms with the current system would go out of there way to debate this. So you are OK with the current system, therefor you are actively resisting a more-fair system? What's the point? If it's a big deal to a few players then let it be a big deal. As the original post said, I'm looking for profitable models to replace the payment system, I'm not trying to prevent the devs from making money. So exactly what's your problem? I'm pretty sure nobody is against a more-fair system even if they think the current system is fine. If a few of us want to bitch about something you think is minuscule then let us. I'm also sure you're not against having more of the playerbase satisfied.

This debate about the current system will never end, but what can happen is those of us who care can think of a more satisfying system. And who knows it might even be more profitable than before. What you are really doing when you explain why you don't care, is preventing progress. If you watched the recent stream you'd know jorb at least understands where people like me are coming from. Let us do our thing. If you don't agree with us it doesn't impact you whatsoever.

I for one DO care, and I'd like to return to brainstorming as was the purpose of this thread to begin with.

[Glorthan]

What I don't get is why people who have no qualms with the current system would go out of there way to debate this. So you are OK with the current system, therefor you are actively resisting a more-fair system? What's the point? If it's a big deal to a few players then let it be a big deal. As the original post said, I'm looking for profitable models to replace the payment system, I'm not trying to prevent the devs from making money. So exactly what's your problem? I'm pretty sure nobody is against a more-fair system even if they think the current system is fine. If a few of us want to bitch about something you think is minuscule then let us. I'm also sure you're not against having more of the playerbase satisfied.

If the devs removed the ability to freeload, and instead you had to pay $7/month to play, would this be more or less "fair" for you? We can't debate "fairness" without knowing what you mean by the term. Currently my best interpretation of what you mean is that fairness means the game is completely free apart from cosmetics, which as we already know from Jorb's previous posts on the matter, can't work with the current player demographic and quantity.

Calling the game "pay to win" based on the subscription model is ridiculous though, given that "pay to win" is usually used to refer to games where constantly spending more money correlates to an increase in player strength/ability. "Pay to play" is a lot less disingenuous, and is far less likely to scare off people that want a quality game not ruined by unbounded non-cosmetic microtransactions. You could argue it's "pay to win" based on subtoken trades, but as previously stated, the reality is even in legacy people were selling items/accounts/etc. for paypal money, and you are only bartering for goods other players produced anyway.

[Hrenli]

there are advantages to paid players.

So, are you proposing that paid players should be at a disadvantage? That would certainly put H&H apart from the rest of the games for sure.

[2d0x]

Not replying to anyone specific, but nobody can deny that there are advantages to paid players.

Similar advantages get people who can play many hours a day. With them you will fight too?

I'm pretty sure nobody is against a more-fair system even if they think the current system is fine.

Your friend came out of the gate and found the corpse of the bear. Here's an example of injustice. Two or three such random events, and you will create the theme of the imbalance in the game ;\

Justice - it's your own luck on the background of other people's failures ;D

[shubla]

This thread is not for debating what "pay to win" means or if haven is pay to win.

It's a bit hard to reason about a solution without being allowed to ask what the problem is.

so true

I think that pay2win means in game advantage from paying real life money. Such as buying more powerful weapons, getting more stats. Currently haven and hearth is indeed pay2win. As with real money you can get advantage compared to other players. I dont know if it would work that there'd be two servers. One for free to play players with stat cap of like 100. And then one which would be statcapless but would cost like 5 dollars a month to play in. Of course hats and stuff could be bought in both.

[omocho]

I dont know if it would work that there'd be two servers. One for free to play players with stat cap of like 100. And then one which would be statcapless but would cost like 5 dollars a month to play in. Of course hats and stuff could be bought in both.

It would handily kill the game. First off, no real need to make restrictions if there is a f2p and p2p server. Plus capping stats at 100 would just mechanically not work for many reasons. Like mining becoming impossible in deeper layers.
Secondly, it'd split the tiny population and the game would be dead. Splitting small populations is always a terrible idea.

[Tamalak]

I have an idea.

If you're not sure about this game, play it for free and casually.

If you decide you like the game enough to want to play it competitively then f***ing support it.

Instead of playing it 300 hours in a month play 299 hours in a month and spend 1 hour mowing the neighbor's f***ing lawn.

Jesus Christ.