Rework Penetration to be based on attack/weapon base damage

[DeadlyPencil]

One of the many complaints about combat is how much damage some of the unarmed moves do. Here is an example of how unarmed attacks do more damage at mid range openings than their much slower weapon based attacks (1000str, 250q sword, 50% opening):

uppercut = 30 * sqrt(1000 str /10) * power(50% opening,2) = 75 damage * 30% penetration = 22.5 damage to opponent
fullcircle = 100% damage * 125 * sqrt(sqrt(250q * 1000 str)/10) * power(50% opening,2) = 220.1 damage * 5% penetration = 11.05 damage to opponent
quick barrage = 25% damage * 125 * sqrt(sqrt(250q * 1000 str)/10) * power(50% opening,2) = 220.1 damage * 5% penetration = 2.76 damage to opponent

what if instead we changed penetration to be based on the base damage of the attack? not caring about the person strength at all? the full damage would still be based on str, but not the penetration part.

uppercut = 30 * power(50% opening,2) = 7.5 damage to opponent
fullcircle = 100% damage *125 * power(50% opening,2) = 31.25 damage to opponent
quick barrage = 25% damage * 125 * power(50% opening,2) = 7.81 damage to opponent

This nerfs unarmed pretty hard, so I would give unarmed a 2.5 multiplier for penetration damage. like below, or simply increase unarmed base damage.

uppercut = 30 * power(50% opening,2) * 2.5 = 18.75 damage to opponent
juggular = 40 * power(50% opening,2) * 2.5 = 25 damage to opponent

Also a lot of people do not like combat at the moment, please consider adding your 1 handed axe (not hatchet) and 2 handed sword models into the game. These will add quite a lot of new dimensions to combat that do not exist at the moment.

[Sevenless]

Or you could do the exact same thing by just increasing the penetration on melee and not change all of the formulas.

Not for or against (not a pvper), just pointing out that what you're suggesting can be done via a simpler method.

[Kaios]

Or you could do the exact same thing by just increasing the penetration on melee and not change all of the formulas.

The issue with that though is that at higher openings melee attacks still deal a decent amount of damage and if you are a high stat player with a nice quality weapon you can still deal a lot of damage with a cleave/raven's bite/sting/full circle at much lower openings. Adding penetration to melee attacks might only make that situation worse. However it's not so easy to build an opponent's openings high enough to deal good damage with a melee attack if they know what they are doing and I think that's fine.

The problem I've found with unarmed in a fight is that anyone who utilizes a deck with damage dealing unarmed attacks will be consistently dealing damage to you all the time and if they are using a combination like flex/uppercut then that damage comes at no IP cost to them. You have to be constantly on the defensive against a higher stat opponent and finding opportunities to deal damage yourself becomes fairly difficult if you aren't dealing damage back with punches as well. In the time it takes for a person trying to use a combat meditation based deck to build up enough IP to actually make use of something like opp knock they have already likely taken a large amount of damage just from the punch attacks.

The present combat to me feels like a race to deal the most damage to your opponent as soon as possible and once you kind of take the lead on that it's hard for the other person to make a come back when you are literally just spamming punches at each other.

[Sevenless]

Does this solution fix that issue? It sounds like this version would be sideswipe or uppercut spam depending on your preferred attack.

[Kaios]

I'm not sure but it might help improve combat a little more, personally I think what is lacking the most is some skill aspect though.

[Sevenless]

It's really unfortunate this current system is all about stats. It is by far the most intuitive combat system they've made to date, and I've enjoyed my casual interactions with it via hunting.

[DeadlyPencil]

So this idea was suppose to de-link strength from penetration so that 2 fighters, 1 with like 500 str and one with 2000 str would be doing the same penetration damage. Also by making it based on the weapons base damage, it will never increase as the game goes on. So a nooby with 10 str, if they managed to get u to 50% opening (donno how), could do 31 damage with a full circle to you. that would be impossible under the current system, they would do 1 damage to you at 50% opening.

[Potjeh]

IMO penetration should be per move rather than per weapon.

[jorb]

IMO penetration should be per move rather than per weapon.

As is it's a function of both.

We are, indeed, considering something in OP's vein for the new combat system. We're on the issue, at least.