Road mechanic rework / remove teleportation

[MinionTwo]

One thing I've considered on that theme is to make it so that road travel entails travel weariness per the usual travel-weariness mechanic, but that paving the road substantially decreases or even eliminates said travel weariness.

I'm good with this. bring back the bed restoring travel weariness and maybe wine. Make it so that walking a path gives you no problems but traveling it does(one takes time, one takes weariness).

[Potjeh]

You should be able to run along paved roads with no stamina loss.

[loftar]

Reasoning for this and that

• Teleportation just sucks.

It seems the main crux of this thread is this point. I'm curious what the greater rationale is, though. Is it the ugly aesthetics of teleportation, or is it the practicality that a long road takes as long to traverse as a short road?

I do know, at least, that I have technical reasons to not remove teleportation -- teleporting over a long road doesn't require loading every map along it, and travelling very fast along roads would require quite a lot more bandwidth for displaying every location along the way. Gameplaywise, I also wonder if there's really any meaningful difference between travelling automatically with a speed bonus vs. just letting the hour-glass take the equivalent amount of time, in that in either case, it's something that happens automatically, without player input, and probably just while the client sits in the background beneath a web browser anyway.

[sMartins]

Reasoning for this and that

• Teleportation just sucks.

It seems the main crux of this thread is this point. I'm curious what the greater rationale is, though. Is it the ugly aesthetics of teleportation, or is it the practicality that a long road takes as long to traverse as a short road?

Well I think it's a bit of both .... but the main thing to me it's that take away a lot of the risk and excitement of being out of your walls ... and for those who like the roleplaying break that also.
The thing is this game teach you that to accomplish relevant things you need to work hard for it ... while teleportation it's the only thing in the game that allow you immediates results.
I think this is more or less the problem with it .... tou I think it's a great and clever mechanic to have a dynamic game ...

Tbh I don't know if teleportation should be removed or not .... maybe we could make some test with a system in between like Slaem & Hearth, where you cannot bring stuff back with you, so that trades, etc.. will happen traveling in person around the world, with all the risks, excitement and opportunity for pvpers to attack trade routes and whatever, definately something we should try soon or later, if you ask to me.

My suggestion is: improve first how vehicles and roads works, with some bonus for being on a road and that jazz, then once we have everything, like bridges, etc.. in short all the convenience to travel, we could try to remove teleportation and see what happen.

P.S. My english is worse than usual today, sorry.

[magisticus]

Reasoning for this and that

• Teleportation just sucks.

It seems the main crux of this thread is this point. I'm curious what the greater rationale is, though. Is it the ugly aesthetics of teleportation, or is it the practicality that a long road takes as long to traverse as a short road?

I do know, at least, that I have technical reasons to not remove teleportation -- teleporting over a long road doesn't require loading every map along it, and travelling very fast along roads would require quite a lot more bandwidth for displaying every location along the way. Gameplaywise, I also wonder if there's really any meaningful difference between travelling automatically with a speed bonus vs. just letting the hour-glass take the equivalent amount of time, in that in either case, it's something that happens automatically, without player input, and probably just while the client sits in the background beneath a web browser anyway.

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can just imagine trying to travel along a road and then realising that you have to come back to computer exactly 9 hours and 3 minutes later when your character arrives at the other end to check he/she/he-she isn't being eaten by something...

[Granger]

I think that scaling the length of the timer to distance dosn't cut it, apart from the 'being eaten' argument magisticus made.

The reasons (gameplay wise) that makes me prefer actual movement through the world is that teleportation:

• removes encounters (as you skip everything on your path) which effectively makes the world feel way more lifeless than it actually is
• removes locality by folding the effective map dimensions down to a tiny fraction, making it irrelevant where you an other things are located
• removes the feeling of accomplishment when travelling

Surely it's convenient to be able to hop over to the (literally) other side of the map to buy a loaf of bread to go with the stew that is currently cooking in the cauldron.... but I really question this ability to be fun or the experience of such a trip being rewarding.

I might see this differently should my only goal be to get my warrior next to the enemy to cut him down (and then teleport back into my vault with the sweet loot) - but with my playstyle I think that teleportation completely sucks immersion wise as you can live next to a busy road that sees several hundred (or even thousand) of uses per day - but you'll never ever see anything of the ones passing by (unless an anthill spawns by chance or you purposefully block the path). That (among reducing littering with road markers) was the reason I formulated the suggestion as I did: to encourage players to route their trails along existing paths, so the likelyness of encounters is increased and the world feels more alive through them.

Performance (capacity, processing, bandwidth) is in the end a question of server architecture: in case you want a system that can support an arbitrary number of concurrent users you need the ability to split up the world between several physical machines (with transparent handover to deliver a seemless experience to the clients) anyway. So, while I see your point about bandwidth and map loading because of travelling, I think eventually you'll need (at least I hope, because that would mean that H&H took off big time) a server farm that scales to demand anyway - automatically addressing the issue of increased load from characters being on their merry way...

[DDDsDD999]

Larping isn't an excuse for shitty gameplay. Having to wait hours to go somewhere would kill trading, community events, and pretty much all community interaction. None of this is worth "roads are ugly lol" and "getting to be at cool places isn't cool!!"

• removes encounters (as you skip everything on your path) which effectively makes the world feel way more lifeless than it actually is
• removes locality by folding the effective map dimensions down to a tiny fraction, making it irrelevant where you an other things are located
• removes the feeling of accomplishment when travelling

• Random encounters in the wilderness are no where near as meaningful or interesting as the encounters stuff like community fair or visiting villages actually provides.
• I think you should be able to visit things that aren't directly near you without just being a massive chore.
• Clicking in a direction for hours isn't an accomplishment, nor fun, nor interesting.

[Granger]

[*]Random encounters in the wilderness are no where near as meaningful or interesting as the encounters stuff like community fair or visiting villages actually provides.

Debateable.

[*]I think you should be able to visit things that aren't directly near you without just being a massive chore.

Along that reasoning everyone needs developer teleportation abilities.

[*]Clicking in a direction for hours isn't an accomplishment, nor fun, nor interesting.[/list]

You don't seem to have read my longer post on page 2, there wouldn't be constant clicking in one direction for hours.

But I suspect that you're a case of

I might see this differently should my only goal be to get my warrior next to the enemy to cut him down (and then teleport back into my vault with the sweet loot)

which would explain why you try to downtalk anything that could you deter slightly from that - while lacking good arguments.

[sMartins]

As I said we should try later on something like Slaem & Hearth .... teleporting but not with loot/stuff on you ... you can still partecipate easily at events cause you don't need to bring stuff with you, or explore the map at your will, but when stuff get serious, trading, looting you have to walk mein dude.

[ven]

I'd like to point out that in haven we don't actually have roads, only waypoints.

Regardless of how they end up being reworked, it would be great if they were also useful for running on instead of being just teleportation poles (and often village-exclusive too). So stomping/paving should be somehow involved in the process too.