The Science Delusion - Rupert Sheldrake

[Potjeh]

Math isn't a human invention.

[Jalpha]

Math isn't a human invention.

Whatever makes you think so? We've invented several different mathematical systems none of which has proven perfect. I consider the latest iteration to be imperfect also. The Universe has no need to run calculations or to count things. Math only makes it easier for us to apply our interpretation onto what we see.

Since I stirred up a hornets nest over this math business I shall elucidate my opinion.

I believe in math in the sense that 1+1=2 and that you can use it to calculate the circumference of a circle. What I do not believe is that math can tell us where the Universe came from or how it will end.

[Zentetsuken]

[MagicManICT]

my point was more about showing a "different view" of reality

There's a lot in philosophy about how the view the world that doesn't go into the weird anti-science rants that some of these nut cases get into. One of my favorite "odd gems" is "Finite and Infinte Games" by James Carse. There's also a lot of metaphysical discussions about how we live in a dream and our dreams are the reality... all kinds of weird stuff that is fun to read and find that there is a rational explanation behind without wondering what drugs the speaker overdosed on in their youth or if they actually have an IQ over 90.

Math isn't a human invention.

Math is a human invention to describe consistent observations of our environment. You can describe the universe in ways other than math, too. The point is made in that math is fallible. How the universe functions isn't (we're assuming).

oh, and:
@jalpha: Yeah, there are some in the educational system that seem to have this belief that we know everything, but anyone with more than a few working brain cells and is observant realizes we don't know jack. That is, after all, the goal--to learn. If we didn't need to learn, we wouldn't need all the education and educated people.

[Jalpha]

REEEE

REEEE

REEEE

Most REEEE of all.

This is like... almost half a page of troll posts just for me. It's flattering to have this fanclub but you guys shouldn't have. No really you shouldn't have. I'm not fluent in trollspeak so your message escapes me. If you kids want to engage in an actual conversation you are going to have to use your big boy words.

Edit: Many instructors I've had can't admit how flawed our understanding of many things is. Others have admitted that, okay, we don't really know how this works at all, but this is the best explanation we have right now. Electricity is a good example of this. As the saying goes "Those who can't do, teach." It's hard to come by good instructors. Intelligent people are generally doing more interesting things with their lives.

[julian12it]

Don't think anyone wants to be part of your fan club. You're one of the few that post the most retarded things around the forums.

[Jalpha]

Get on muh level scrubs.

[Potjeh]

Math is a human invention to describe consistent observations of our environment. You can describe the universe in ways other than math, too.

Name one that's anywhere near as consistent and accurate.

[Jalpha]

That's no excuse for blindly accepting what we have as our current best model.

Shortly after Victor was found, a local abbot and biology professor, Pierre Joseph Bonnaterre, examined him. He removed the boy's clothing and led him outside into the snow, where, far from being upset, Victor began to frolic about in the nude, showing Bonnaterre that he was clearly accustomed to exposure and cold.

Victor of Aveyron

Just because you can't do it, understand it or explain it doesn't mean it isn't possible. To the best of my recollection this is not the only child discovered to be capable of thinga most of us can't. Like surviving extreme cold without clothing, or communicating with animals.

I'm sure science could come up with some explanation, but would it suffice?

[Potjeh]

Medicine is not a hard science. Math is. There is no alternative to the addition operation for example. Different cultures throughout history have come up with exact same mathematical rules totally independent of each other. That's because math isn't invented, it's discovered. If we discover intelligent extraterrestrial life, it's going to use those same basic rules of mathematics as foundation for all their science.