Oven Upgrades (+ other?)

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Everything, absolutely everything is tied to the time. And acquiring more building space is time-wise still the cheapest of things to acquire.

But space increases time spent moving between units, creates more travel time between ovens, all of which adds up with the more ovens you add. You cannot simplify it down to 'more space is cheap', space costs TIME and time is expensive.

Also, the time spent you describe is the maintenance cost, not the initial construction cost and your idea as initially proposed had atrocius maintenance cost as well via juggling all the inventories.

That's why the idea evolved

As Initial post lacks proper description, I will assume softcap). It isn't a bad thing. but i fail to see what is particularly good about it.

Yes, softcap.

Wait what. None of it can be derived from your original post.

The idea evolved throughout the thread.

As decsribed, I imagined it as just another item that would be sold at CF, similar to other tools, which one would just buy and use.

Yes, the craftsman who sell the item after making it are who I'm referring to.

Now this implementation I can support. One time upgrade which simply increase inventory size at the cost of potentially capping produced goods. None of inventory juggling and clicking fiesta. Opens potential for other modular structures and ideas fot their upgrades.Too bad that opening post contains none of these details.

Because the idea evolved throughout the thread. Not my fault you only read the OP.

[SaltyCrate]

Because the idea evolved throughout the thread. Not my fault you only read the OP.

Please do point me to the post you made prior to my first reply (to which most of your comments are addressed to) in this thread which evolve your initial idea in any way. There are exactly 3 posts of yours and none of them do what you claimed they do. Should I be snarky about it and mention how it is "Not my fault you can't follow simple conversation" or will we choose to not stoop to personal level?

[Aceb]

+1 for each idea that makes end-game less of a chore, even if that would require 666 steel bars. If not a new bigger oven, just an upgrade would be nice!

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

Should I be snarky about it and mention how it is "Not my fault you can't follow simple conversation" or will we choose to not stoop to personal level?

Respect, my bad on that and I appreciate you calling me out on it. Back to the conversation at hand. (Goes to edit OP so that others will not encounter the same thing.)

[SaltyCrate]

Upgrades could include:

1. Oven Racks - Each Oven Rack installed would increase the number of slots available by 4 (max of 20). Note: Rack Quality has a direct effect on end produce.
   Flue - One only - reduces cook time of items in the oven. (Suggested: Each Q step reduces cooktime by 30 seconds, so 30 seconds at Q10, 60 at Q40, 90 at Q90, 120 at Q160, etc. to a minimum time of 580 seconds or 9.67 minutes (2 sticks of fuel)
   Damper - One only - increases the burn time of fuel used in the oven in increments of 29 seconds, to a maximum increase of 290 seconds (doubling fuel efficiency).

I like all of these and would like to see this modular mechanics in game, expanded to other structures with different types of cool upgrades.
I am not familiar enough with all exact numbers for baking process, but wouldn't quality cap for flue and damper be ~3500 and 1000 respectively? Seems way too high. Also, couldn't there arise a situation at certain qualities when baked products will be finished and promptly turn to ash before final branch is extinguished?

[MagicManICT]

The purpose of a dampner or flue is to better regulate temperature. If anything, I'd say it could improve the quality effect of the stove*. Lessen the softcapping or give a slight bonus to finished quality of good. Simple way would be to just add a percentage to the finished good, say 50% of the difference between the good and the oven. (50% is random number, could be anything for a decent balance in the game.) Examples: normally a q10 stove + q10 fuel cooking q50 items would result in q30. with a good flue, it could instead leave the stove at only half or quarter of its normal weight, so end up with q40 goods. Goods are still softcapped, but not as harshly. Conversely, if you have q10 items and q50 stove and fuel you get the same q30 base, which is an increase to food quality, but could move it up to q40 with the flue.

*Food takes a certain amount of time to cook. Adjusting temperature can shorten or lengthen the time to cook in a lot of cases, but in others, it changes the resulting quality or isn't even possible. Meats are very tolerant of a wide temperature range when cooking. Baked goods can be very finicky about it, though: too hot, and it never gets done in the middle (or is burnt outside if it does get done); cool it off any, and the texture doesn't come out right... as in it can be inedible. Then there are things like a souffle...

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

The purpose of a dampner or flue is to better regulate temperature. If anything, I'd say it could improve the quality effect of the stove*. Lessen the softcapping or give a slight bonus to finished quality of good. Simple way would be to just add a percentage to the finished good, say 50% of the difference between the good and the oven. (50% is random number, could be anything for a decent balance in the game.) Examples: normally a q10 stove + q10 fuel cooking q50 items would result in q30. with a good flue, it could instead leave the stove at only half or quarter of its normal weight, so end up with q40 goods. Goods are still softcapped, but not as harshly. Conversely, if you have q10 items and q50 stove and fuel you get the same q30 base, which is an increase to food quality, but could move it up to q40 with the flue.

*Food takes a certain amount of time to cook. Adjusting temperature can shorten or lengthen the time to cook in a lot of cases, but in others, it changes the resulting quality or isn't even possible. Meats are very tolerant of a wide temperature range when cooking. Baked goods can be very finicky about it, though: too hot, and it never gets done in the middle (or is burnt outside if it does get done); cool it off any, and the texture doesn't come out right... as in it can be inedible. Then there are things like a souffle...

I was deliberately avoiding having every element of the upgrades directly related to quality, there's just too much of that going around and it's boring. Wanted something more interesting.

Which isn't to say you don't make some excellent points if we were going for pure realism.

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

The purpose of a dampner or flue is to better regulate temperature. If anything, I'd say it could improve the quality effect of the stove*. Lessen the softcapping or give a slight bonus to finished quality of good. Simple way would be to just add a percentage to the finished good, say 50% of the difference between the good and the oven. (50% is random number, could be anything for a decent balance in the game.) Examples: normally a q10 stove + q10 fuel cooking q50 items would result in q30. with a good flue, it could instead leave the stove at only half or quarter of its normal weight, so end up with q40 goods. Goods are still softcapped, but not as harshly. Conversely, if you have q10 items and q50 stove and fuel you get the same q30 base, which is an increase to food quality, but could move it up to q40 with the flue.

*Food takes a certain amount of time to cook. Adjusting temperature can shorten or lengthen the time to cook in a lot of cases, but in others, it changes the resulting quality or isn't even possible. Meats are very tolerant of a wide temperature range when cooking. Baked goods can be very finicky about it, though: too hot, and it never gets done in the middle (or is burnt outside if it does get done); cool it off any, and the texture doesn't come out right... as in it can be inedible. Then there are things like a souffle...

I was deliberately avoiding having every element of the upgrades directly related to quality, there's just too much of that going around and it's boring. Wanted something more interesting.

Which isn't to say you don't make some excellent points if we were going for pure realism.

[MagicManICT]

I was deliberately avoiding having every element of the upgrades directly related to quality, there's just too much of that going around and it's boring. Wanted something more interesting.

I probably went the long way of why speeding up times is bad, and the short answer just occurred to me: burning food. Mess with the time too much, and you risk screwing with that timer, which would be bad. Those with custom clients could pick up on such things and provide relatively accurate feedback to the user. Don't expect that out of the standard client, which is what most new players use for a good bit of time. We all rely on the oven just shutting off after four sticks of fuel and having perfectly baked goods. I think it's why all baked goods take take the same amount of fuel (vs legacy where it could be from 1 to 4 sticks worth).

[Lunarius_Haberdash]

We all rely on the oven just shutting off after four sticks of fuel and having perfectly baked goods. I think it's why all baked goods take take the same amount of fuel (vs legacy where it could be from 1 to 4 sticks worth).

Yeah, I've never considered that an improvement. Solution:

The time to burn is increased by the amount of time the time to cook is reduced. This allows you to cook 'casually' rather than actively.