Make alt insiding punishable?

[MightySheep]

I know this game doesnt really have GMs and its a bit of effort required to examine cases but Wurm Online used to have the same issue where it was ridiculously effective to just go into recruitment threads or discord PMs and get alt inside enemy village and thus wipe out entire village with 1 simple act. Once they made it an IP ban offence I did not see it happen at all.

Reason I make this thread is because I already see W11 "village recruitment" threads pop up and I just feel bad for them, I dont think I have EVER seen a successful public recruitment village. If they evolve beyond shanty town stage then they just get alt killed, its inevitable.

I know it is a bit of a grey area, for example I remember attempt of ryleh, ironborn and polska to make cooperative village and infighting led to all the groups turned on each other. Wurm has a bit of an easier time defining "alts" because they are non-premium. However some cases in Haven are pretty cut and dry like when that public recruitment village earlier in world was blocking DIS claim and they alt killed it within a week lol.

[Sholom]

-1
Being careful with whom you recruit is a crucial part of the game spirit and a social minigame on it's own. It's not that easy to trick a smart recruiter and planning your town properly can minimize the potential damage.
Also this sort of serves as a restrictment on creating zerg groups too easy too fast.

[MightySheep]

tfw a 1 post jew downvotes a thread about abusing alts

There's no trick to being a "smart recruiter" when you are publicly recruiting. Anyone with a brain can infiltrate a public village. Its possible to be cautious with recruiting if you are requiring referrals and a proven track record etc but thats not the issue. The issue is nobody will ever recruit new players, making Haven a terrible game for new player without friends or connections. If a village is dumb enough to not tell all new player to "get lost" then they are doomed from the start.

[Sholom]

New-ish players recruit new players. There is no point for the vets to go through elaborate scheme to infiltrate a low tier village.
Also there are factions camps for recruiting everyone and inviting the worthy ones to join them later.
However if recruiting was entirely risk free, numbers of members in big factions would go up to hundreds. How would that reflect on noobs and hermits? I'd assume they would be the ones to get screwd again.

[MightySheep]

However if recruiting was entirely risk free, numbers of members in big factions would go up to hundreds.

First of all, no it wouldnt and second of all do you think this is a bad thing? New players actually being included in the game is somehow bad? When I first played Eve online there were 3 large factions that were recruiting noobs and they had a whole infrastructure to supply them with the basics and give them training / show them the ropes so you can actually enjoy Eve how its meant to be played. I was able to join one of the gigantic mega-faction wars within first couple of weeks.

But no you think noobs should be confined to hermitages and shanty towns, where they belong right? I remember when I first started on W5 I wanted to actually play the game but had to play hermit since I didnt know anybody. I think it was W7 when I started with a bigger group of people of friends from other games which allowed me to get foot in the door to actually playing the game properly because we merged with another group.

Haven is one of the few games I know with such a bad new player experience, not much else comes close to it. Nobody will give you time of day let alone teach you anything. You have way more chance of just being permakilled for no reason. The reason why is almost entirely because of the reason I state in this thread. Recruitment is toxic and nobody with a brain will do it.

Imagine if it is like you say and factions are all trying really hard to compete for new player recruitment, I think this would be a 100x better new player experience than current.

There is no point for the vets to go through elaborate scheme to infiltrate a low tier village.

That's why I said in my first post that "any public village which evolve beyond a shanty town" get alt killed. I remember a specific village earlier in this world that was forum recruiting and I found them in game and I remember just feeling sorry for them because they progressed too much and I KNEW they were just a ticking time bomb (they died to alt). Have you also noticed how new brodgar is not a thing any more, even their style of separated plots didnt stop them getting alt killed in I think it was W9.

[Granger]

EVE make it way easier to run recruitment/training cooperations because it provides structures (in high-sec though) one can base such things in with low effort. Spies are still an issue though.

[Hrenli]

Reason I make this thread is because I already see W11 "village recruitment" threads pop up and I just feel bad for them, I dont think I have EVER seen a successful public recruitment village. If they evolve beyond shanty town stage then they just get alt killed, its inevitable.

And the suggestion to fix this "problem"? Ban recruitment threads or what?

Seriously, there is no technical solution to this as long as the game is three (you just can't prove that another account connecting to the server via VPN belongs to the same player as some other account). And if you want to make/force all players play nicely... Well... No comments.

[MightySheep]

And the suggestion to fix this "problem"? Ban recruitment threads or what?

Seriously, there is no technical solution to this as long as the game is three (you just can't prove that another account connecting to the server via VPN belongs to the same player as some other account). And if you want to make/force all players play nicely... Well... No comments.

I already put my solution, it's literally the thread title. It worked in Wurm Online as a deterrent, I'm sure it would be effective in this game too. Making abusers have to mask their IP address is already more effort than current. Like I said, whenever it has happened previously as players most of the time we all know who was behind it. Not sure where "playing nicely" comes into it.

I personally dont go near such villages so it doesnt make any difference to me, I just think its a boring and easily avoidable mechanic. I'm bored of seeing the same groups world after world and whenever there's a new group form which hasn't learned the way this game operates. They just get killed with this same boring method. Every single world.

[Hrenli]

I already put my solution, it's literally the thread title.

Yeah, "Make alt insiding punishable". Define "alt insiding" first. For that you have to define an alt and prove that it is an alt for punishment. Please explain how it's gonna work in VPN age.

Have you ever considered the fact that not everyone is playing using static IP? It's even theoretically possible (though unlikely) that an IP which was used by one player at one time is used by another player another time if they happen to belong to the same ISP network?

Another aspect is - is such behavior OK if it's the only char of a player? Am I allowed to fuck my village up if I am on the only and main character?

[shubla]

Fuck the players!
This is no harvest moon!